Women in the pulpit

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

You:
>  The scriptures are clear:
> 
> I Tim 2:
> 9   In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in
modest apparel, with 
>      shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair,
or gold, or pearls,
> or 
>      costly array; 
> 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with
good works.
> 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 
> 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp
authority over the man, but
> 
>      to be in silence. 
> 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
> 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being
deceived was in the 
>      transgression. 
> 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if
they continue in
> faith 
>      and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Me:
Yeah, this is clearly an admonition for how women are to
behave themselves in regard to their HUSBANDS, PERIOD. 
This is not to be carried over to the Church.
 
You:
>   A congregation sitting before a preacher and listening
to the word of 
> God is a situation where that congregation is in
subjection to the minister
> of the word.  

Me:
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!  WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

The congregation is to be in subjection to the SPIRIT that
inspires the Word and *"NOTHING"* else!!!!!

Four teenage/preteenage girls informed Paul that God SAID
not to go to Jerusalem.  This carried the same weight as if
GOD HIMSELF had said this since HE HAD.  Now, when the Word
of God comes out of a female, I for one brothers, will be
in subjection to *"IT"*!!

You:
Men are not to be subject to women, period.  

Me:
True, but if God calls one to preach, you better be in
subjection to the Word that the Spirit delivers via His
handmaiden.

You:
Why would 
> it be preached in the word that men are to be the head of
household and 
> then as soon as they get out of the house and into
church, they are to be 
> subjected to a woman?  That's not logical or biblical.   


Me:
So if a man is my Pastor and then I hire him who is in
authority at work?  
 
You:
>   Why were the apostles all men?  Women were in the camp,
and no
> doubt they were very dear and important to the cause of
Christ, but 
> this is a clear example of  Christ's plan of leadership
in the church.

Me:
The key word is "leadership."  No female Apostles, no
female Bishops/Elders (same word in the Greek) and no
female Deacons.
These are the only offices in the church, not our orgs. but
in the Church, and the pastorate is a "gift."  Look it up. 
 
You:
>   As for the scriptures not discriminating against women,
that's true in
> the sense that is generally meant.  

Me:
Not at all.  The Bible discriminates BETWEEN men and women
in nearly everything.  We have different POSITIONS. 
Calling is the same.

You:
for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."  The
context of the chapter is order, subjection and discipline
in the church.  

Me:
Why must men continually use this OUT of context to justify
their prejudice?  It is a shame for ANYONE to speak in
Church.  The kids should be quiet WHEN THE PREACHER IS
SPEAKING and if they have any questions let them ask their
parents at home but let them "KEEP SILENT *IN THE CHURCH*!"

This is the context of this passage.  The women sat across
the isles from their husbands and would call out "What does
he mean by that Hyram?" and disrupt the service.  Paul is
saying "To maintain order, ask your own husband, and ask at
home.
The context is not to say that

You:
Women can certainly teach other women and children, of that
there's no doubt, but the church and family hierarchy is
very clear. 

Me:
Nope, if they can't teach men then they can't teach anyone.
 You can either teach or you can't.  This implies that the
man is always right.  We ALL know better than that now
don't we.  If God whispers into a sisters ear then you
better listen to what she repeats.

Who was it that "preached" the resurrection of Christ for
the first week or so?  Oh, that's right, God only uses
women to preach when He can't find a willing man.  Thik
about that statement for a minute.  When we get out of
order God then decides that the only way He can get through
to us is to GET OUT OF ORDER HIMSELF?  I don't buy that for
a minute!

You:
 Is it too far to suppose that this is the ultimate end of 
> this argument over women having authority over men in the
church?
> I don't know, but I think the argument is compelling.  

Me:
How has a woman or anyone else exercised authority over you
if they merely DELIVER the Word of God?

You: 
> "Your spirituality is only as strong, as the smallest
principle you 
> chose to reject."

Me:
Nonsense.  Your Spirituality is only as strong as your
weakness toward God.  What does any man know of principles
that he didn't 
learn from God?

Timothy (will listen to the Word even if it comes from an
ass, no offense girls) :-) Litteral
472 Grant St.
Marion Ohio 43302
trlitteral@usa.net
http://members.tripod.com/~trlitteral