At 08:39 AM P 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Steven Hall wrote:
>Paul wasn't saying for the women to keep silence, He was answering a
>statement made by the Corinthians, church leaders, (look in chater 1 Cor
>7:1 "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:"
>
>The statement in 1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the
>churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are
>commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
>1 Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their
>husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
>
>Pauls answer was, a resounding, "WHAT!
>Like if I make a statement like, "Pentecostals should always do what the
>preacher says above the bible, when there is a question."
>To a ridiculous statement as this you might say, "What!" we must always
>go by the bible.
>
>Another example of this being true is the fact that, "as also saith the
>law." Paul would never have given instruction like this because we are
>not under the law.(quote from verse 34 of Cor 14)
>Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under
>the law, but under grace.
>Your servant for Jesus sake,
>Steven Hall
>
Brother Hall and others interested in this issue,
I believe in women preachers and pastors, but I'm not going to twist
the scriptures to maintain that belief, and Bro. Hall, may I respectfully
suggest that that's what you have just done to I Cor. 14:34-35. Just
because Paul mentions that he was answering the Corinthians' questions clear
back in chapter seven does not indicate that he was reiterating what they
had asked him and calling it ridiculous, the exclamation "what?" in the next
verse notwithstanding. I am greatly troubled by such obvious wresting of
the word of God (II Peter 3:16), which is entirely unnecessary if one merely
looks at what Paul was saying in the context of the rest of the scriptures.
Paul had just said in verse 31 that "ye may all prophecy" and we do
have plenty of examples of women who prophesied in the Bible (Anna, Debora,
Hulda, Isaiah's wife, the daughters of Philip, etc.--indeed the very
scripture "...you sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy....). Also of note is
Phebe, "a servant of the church" in Romans 16:1. The word 'servant' comes
from the greek word 'diakonos' which is rendered 'minister' and 'deacon'.
The word 'diakonia' is translated 'ministry' throughout the New Testament.
In Philippians 4:3, Paul refers to women who laboured with him "IN THE GOSPEL".
Furthermore, we have the "elect lady and her children" to whom II
John is addressed. The reason I believe she was the minister of the church
is because in I Cor. 4:15, Paul shows that he considers himself the father
of those whom he had "begotten" in the gospel (his children in the Lord).
Also, John, in I John 2:1 refers to those under his ministry as "my little
children". John also concludes II John by saying "the children of thy elect
sister greet thee", indicating that the elect lady and the elect sister were
actual people and not merely metaphors for the church.
With these examples in mind, lets look at I Cor. 14:34-35 again:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as
also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their
husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
In the same sentence in which Paul says it is not permitted unto the women
to speak, he says that instead ("but") they are commanded to be under
obedience. Now, to whom are women commanded to be under obedience? EVEN
UNDER THE LAW, women were to submit to their own husbands--not to men in
general. What I get from this is that, even at church, women are to not
talk back to nor to berate their husbands, nor should they disrupt the
service by asking their husbands questions. When is it a shame for a woman
to speak? When she is speaking in a way that disrespects her husband. And
what about "if they will learn anything"? If a woman has questions to ask
her husband, she should ask at home (rather than be a distraction--it was
customary for men to sit on one side and women the other, so imagine the
disruption if women were yelling back and forth to their husbands at
church). Paul's writing in I Timothy chapter three (about wives having a
meek and quiet spirit, and about "chaste conversation coupled with fear")
shed some more light on Paul's teaching.
Also, I think we have to consider the obvious--women preachers and
pastors have been a part of Pentecostalism from the beginning of the
latter-rain movement throughout this past century. What shall we say about
people who were saved under the minstry of these women? Was that the Holy
Ghost they were feeling (and receiving) in those services or was it some
other spirit? God does not work in rebellion to himself. If these women
were preaching solely in the flesh, with no anointing, then how did all
those people come to know the Lord? Were these women preaching in rebellion
against God? And if they were, then why did God do such great works through
their efforts? And look at the women who have served as well-known Apostolic
missionaries--didn't God use them? C'mon, you know he did. Both in the Bible
and in modern times, we see God speaking his word through women. Go before
the throne of God with these issues the next time you pray about it--I'd be
interested in knowing what God shows you!
Striving to "do it right",
Troy