God's Freedom

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Steve Starcher replied:

>> Mike Reed:
>
>>God is bound by his word.  Is God somehow diminished by his
>> self
>> imposed bonds?  Does God somehow become less attractive because he
has
>> become
>> to a degree predictable?  Does this open an avenue of criticism to
the
>> gainsayer, "Your God is limited?"  No, because although bound by his
>> word, he
>> is able to fulfill that which he has promised.
>
>Shouldn't you be saying that God is bound by your interpretation of his
>Word Brother Reed?
>
>Let's look at a few examples:
>
>Ge 2:16,17  And the Lord commanded the man, "You are free to eat from
>any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the
>knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely
die."
>
>Ge 3:23  So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden....
>
>Why didn't God kill Adam?  Please don't interpret this passage solely
>with a spiritual reference.  Was not God concerned that humankind would
>eat of the tree of life and live forever?


Adam died...it never said he would die "today"...took a few years, but
he died. BTW - the spiritual death could also apply inspite of your
assertion.

>Ge 6:6  So the Lord said, I will wipe mankind, whom I have created from
>the face of the earth, men and animals, and creature that move along
the
>ground, and birds of the air, for I am grieved that I have made them.
>But Noah found favor in the eyes of God.
>
>How was God bound to his word in this passage Brother Reed?  How was
God
>predictable?


Does it say ALL....no, He did wipe it out and start over....

>Ge 18:26-33  The Lord said, If I find fifty...forty
>five...forty..thirty...twenty...ten...righteous people in the city of
>Sodom I will not destroy it.  (Paraphrased)
>
>This passage has me really confused.  How was God bound to his word?
>How was God predictable?


Did God find ONE righteous ??? I do not see that He did...He saved Lot
for Abraham...not for Lot's righteousness

Gen 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the
plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the
overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

>Ge 22:2  Then God said, Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you
>love, and go to the region of Moriah.  Sacrifice him there as a burnt
>offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
>
>Ge 22:10  Then he reached out his hand to slay his son.  But the angel
>of the Lord called out to him from heaven....Do not lay a hand on the
>boy.....
>
>I'm confused again Bro Reed.  What would you be calling out to Abraham?
>Kill the kid because God is bound by his Word?


This is a bit ridiculous...if you read the rest you see that God was
testing Abraham's faith and obediance

>Ex 32:5  I have seen these people, the Lord said to Moses, and they are
>a stiff necked people.  Now leave me alone so that my anger might burn
>against them and that I may destroy them.  Then I will make you into a
>great nation.
>
>Ex 32:11-14  But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God....Then the
>Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had
>threatened.
>
>I'm still confused Brother Reed.  God was bound by his Word.  Why
didn't
>he just wipe them all out?  Why wasn't he predictable?


The power of the prayers of a person right with God...BTW this not the
same as the "LAW" or the new covenant. This is not salvation doctirne
but an example of how the Lord does love us and is willing to hear our
prayers. Could it be that God was testing Moses' commitment and never
intended to wipe them out??? One day (if we are right with God) we will
know!


>Ever read the book of Jeremiah Brother Reed?
>
>Je 15:1  Then the Lord said to me even if Moses or Samuel were to stand
>before me my heart would not go out to these people.  Send them away
>from my presence!  Let them go!
>
>Je 15:19  This is what the Lord says, if you repent, I will restore you
>that you might serve me......
>
>Still confused Brother Reed.  I look forward to your explanations.


More examples of God's Grace...preparing us for what was to
come...repent or perish....not a contradiction a standard of God from
Adam to Heaven!


>And perhaps we should not ignore the Prophet Amos and his infamous
plumb
>line.  Surly if God is bound to his word and predictable anywhere it
>will be here.
>
>Amos 2:4  For three sins of Judah, even for four, I will not turn back
>my wrath...
>
>Amos 2:6  For three sins of Israel, even for four, I will not turn back
>my wrath...
>
>Amos 3:3  Do two walk together unless they have agreed to do so?
>
>Amos 9:1  I saw the Lord standing by the altar and he said:  Strike the
>tops of the pillars so that the thresholds shake.  Bring them down on
>the heads of the people; those who are left I will kill with the sword.
>Not one will get away, none will escape.
>
>Amos 9:8  Surely the eyes of the sovereign Lord are on the sinful
>kingdom.  I will destroy it from the face of the earth...yet I will not
>totally destroy the house of Jacob.....I will plant israel in their own
>land, never to be uprooted from the land I have given them.
>
>Bro Reed, what happened to God's plumb line?  Was it swinging in the
>wind?  How was God bound to his word when he explicitly says that he
>will destroy his people and then, unbelievably, changes his mind, and
>offers Grace and salvation?


How can you know what Grace and Mercy are unless you know what you
face....you do not appreciate it until you face the punishment. Ever had
the Hand of God protect you? ever had a close call in the car...and you
knew God had protected you...well I have a friend that was in a car with
4 people and he was hit by a truck at high speeds and all 4 walked
away...once the car was cut up to allow them to get out. God's had saved
them from death. His appreciation is greater than mine for a close call.
God was in His last days of tolerance with Israel and trying to make a
point.

>
>>  This fact should give us hope.  We know that God will not, "jerk the
>> rug out
>> from under us" when we count on his promises.
>
>Now this is really sad Brother Reed.  God will never "jerk the rug"
>from under your theological system?  This means that your system of
>beliefs is infallible and perfect.

b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut he never says "God will never jerk the rug from my
theological system"...he makes it personal and adds that "when we count
on his promises". Brother you seem to have misunderstood his thoughts
here. No mention of perfection...only reliance upon Him.

>I will be looking for your name to
>appear as the smokes wafts up the chimney after the present pope dies.

This is a low blow and exactly the kind of posting I THOUGHT we had been
warned against. Brother please do not make this fleshly...you claim to
be lead by the spirit yet you answer with a serious insult such as
this....

>Personally I hope God continually "jerks the rug: from under my
beliefs.


Your def of "jerking the rug" is not what Bro Reed has....you talk of
constant revelation in Chirst and he talks of security of his soul.
Apples and oranges and the twain shall never meet!


>And what promises are you counting on Brother Reed?  That when you get
>to heaven your theological system will be vindicated? That only those
>who agree with you will be in heaven?

With the chance of being chastized....I think that the promise is...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye
shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

BINGO a promise.....

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye
were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of
the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

earnest is a downpayment with a promise of a future payment in full...


>That everyone in heaven will have
>to pass the Mike Reed Theology 1 course before they enter the pearly
>gates? Brother Reed, I hate to disappoint you, but when you get to
>heaven you are going to be so overwhelmed by the presence of Jesus
that,
>(SHOCK!), you won't even be thinking about theology, whether anyone
>agrees with you or not!


Maybe.....you do not know that brother unless you are God! You just
judged and pronounced a heaven ruling on people when you are only a
saved sinner like the rest of us. Now what we can do is use the Word of
God to teach people what Jesus and His disciples taught (hey I thik I
have seen that tree before, are we going in circles here?).

>>  Does this belief make us gods?  No.  Do I become someone's god when
I
>> knock
>> on a door and someone gets up and opens it?  No.  When I knock on the
>> Lord's
>> door he promised he will open it.  This does not make me his God just
>> because
>> he is bound by his word.
>
>We become little gods when you sincerely believe that you possess all
of
>the knowledge of God's wills and ways in our very small human minds.

Been stated a few times that we do not YOU assert that upon us because
we do not agree with you...well Bro. use your all powerful modern
thinking and prove an error. You asked me to show you and error...I have
corrected a few but try and show me one and I will apply the same rigors
to it and see if it is in the will of God.

>We
>become little Apostolic prima donnas when we think we have mastered God
>and his word to the point that our interpretations are equated with
Holy
>Scripture.  We become little gods when we do not allow God to be God in
>absolute freedom and bind him by our theological system.


We??? you claim to be above the points you just asserted....so you
really mean YOU. Of course that does not apply to me...I know that I can
be wrong and I know that God will show me more errors in the future.

>>  So many of his ways are "pass finding out," but thank God, there
>> are some
>> things we can know about him. This gives us confidence, this gives us
>> hope.
>
>Hope for what Brother Reed?  That your theology is 100% accurate and in
>need of no reformation?  Hope that everyone else is lost except for the
>Mike Reed species of Apostolic?


Objection....another low blow....the prosecution is badgering the poster
and puting words in his mouth and asserting ideas to him that are not
supported by the statement.

>I'm sorry if this post sounds harsh but I am really frustrated with
your
>attempts to wrest God's freedom from his hands and use it to justify
>your infallible theological system.  Brother Reed, you are not a
>cultist, but this is the very stuff cults base their theology on.  "God
>is bound by our interpretation of his word."  "We are the only one's
who
>have God's truth."  "Everyone is lost except for us."  "We know for
sure
>what God will do in the future."

>
>Brother Reed, the Apostolic movement deserves better than this.  Please
>think about what you are saying and all of its implications before you
>write.


What it deserves is the truth and that is not what is beign presented
here. What is being presented is a biaed slant on all attempts to answer
your claims. We have honestly tried and yet you just try to slap us
around with your insults as if we are not fit to talk to, well have it
your way...but the truth will prevail.

Bill Clifton


>
>God bless!
>
>Steve
>


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