We Who? Re: An Apostolic Declaration for the Third Millenium 1
"Tyler Nally" (tnally@iquest.net)
Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:59:53 -0500
Sis Yohnk scribeth....
>Brother Starcher, I have stated this before, but it must be said again.
>It is very obvious that your primary concern is not having individuals
>baptized in Jesus name, not having individuals filled with the Holy
>Spirit and speak in tongues, not having people receive the revelation of
>the fullness of God in Christ.
I believe that time-and-time-again we've read where he *DOES* strive
for these.... just not in the same fashion/methods.
>You primary concern is not evangelism,
>converting individuals to Jesus Christ the Apostolic way.
Still don't think that we've seen this either... he's told of several
times where he's been successful at discipling others into the apostolic
fold from what's been called greater christendom.
>Your primary
>concern is not discipleship, teaching individuals how to serve Jesus
>Christ.
Nope, not seen this either.
>And then changed it slightly more and said:
> Your primary concern is defending your theological system, which I have
>identified with Liberalism. This is also true of others who agree with
>you.
Not defending .... (on H-F it might be defending because there's a
resistance to him garnering the same results as traditional methods
yield) ... defining a theological system intellectually and not solely
on feelings and hand-me-down theologies/perceptions/concepts from
the pulpit.
It's his method that's different. Not his love for our Lord. Let's see
if we can make an example of what is traditional and what is a little
different and yields the same results. Let's do it with mathematics...
specifically addition. Most people when wanting to add up a list of
numbers written vertically on a piece of paper, like this ...
123
456
+789
----
????
... would try to add the numbers starting at the right hand side
of the problem by summing up the "ones" digit, then carrying some
of the sum of the "one" part to the "tens" column before starting
on the it, and so forth. The problem would be performed like this...
Ones column ......... 3 + 6 + 9 equals 18 ....
write 8 down, carry the 1 to the next column
Tens column ......... 1 (carried number) + 2 + 5 + 8 equals 16 ...
write 6 down, carry the 1 to the next column
Hundreds's column ... 1 (carried number) + 1 + 4 + 7 equals 13 ...
write 13 down
...thus finishing the problem by writing the answer
123
456
+789
----
1368 which is exactly correct.
But, there's another way to do the same problem that's potentially
different and it takes practice. This method, you add things up
starting on the left-hand side of the numbers keeping a running total
while you go in your head. It goes like this...
100 + 400 totals 500 add 700 equalling 1200.
Next column, 1200 (previous total from the last column) plus 20 equals 1220.
1220 plus 50 is 1270. 1270 plus 80 is 1350. Remember 1350 as we now go onto
the next column.
Next column, 1350 plus 3 equals 1353, plus 6 is 1359, plus 9 is 1368.
Imagine that! The same answer using a different method! You'll not
normally see the other way to do it taught in schools, but it's equally
as effective and is probably even quicker to perform. Without scratch
paper even!
I think, about Bro Starcher, you've got to realize is that you don't
see him *witnessing* out there in the real world because you're not
in his local area. You're only getting one teeeeeny tiny aspect of
what the brother is all about based on something that has been already
condemned by some around here (a supposedly friendly place for apostolics
to hang out). There's times when he's wrote about camping trips for the
youth in Yosemite and the spendor of how God was there to all. There's
times when he written of how God's used him to talk to others. You're
basing your judgement/condemnation on what your perception of the man
is all about ... I think your perceptions of the man are generally
skewed because you can't see the conclusions as matching up with how
you think it should be ... down to the last letter.
It's all about perceptions. And perceptions based on a premise.
>I wonder about the acceptance level. I have done this on numerous
>occasions. Taking his words and turning them around and being told I was
>unloving.
I think the first paragraph where you stated ... "Your primary concern
is not".... "Your primary concern is not".... "Your primary concern is
not" .... shows that you're trying to tear down the man rather than
building him up. Now, whether the motive is to *flush out the skunk*
or *to correct a brother*, determines whether it's done in a loving
manner. Right now, I don't know what the motives are.
>Another thing I would like to point out is that when this thing started,
>we were one group. Now, Starcher is starting his own "journal" and
>suggests we get a (his words) "competitive web-site". Oh, thank you, Bro.
>Starcher for your unifying doctrine.
I'm not so sure about that. I've always noticed that there's distinct
lines of separation of the posters that traditionally run between the
members of the different organizations.... generally. The PAW saints
say one thing and get involved in certain battles of doctrine. The ALJC
saints say another thing and get involved in certain kinds of battles.
And the UPCI saints do likewise as well. It doesn't always hold to this
pattern, but it's been there a long time. To me, it shows the complete
spectrum of what apostolics are all about. A spiritual melting pot of
sorts.
I think that Bro Starcher's writings are definitory *within* the apostolic
movement. It shows the spectrum of the movement. I don't think it's so
much saying that different colors/flavors/tints of the apostolic spectrum
are incorrect as much as it's saying there's more than one color that make
up the white light (combined light from all light of the color spectrum)
of the apostolic movement.
Now, if the different colors/flavors/tints of the apostolic spectrum
understand Bro Starchers statments of definition as *separation*, then
it's their interpretation of what he says that separates them into
separate groups or classes. To me, it's more like identifying the
different parts of a bicycle. There are wheels, tires, gears, chain,
innertubes, spokes, handlebars, etc., etc., etc. Each part distinctly
different, but all together to work a purpose. Each part isn't a spoke
just as each part isn't the bicycle seat. Just different parts. Then
to mix it up a little, not all bicycles are the same, there's recumbant
bicycles as well and they have parts that make them go as well when
assembled properly. Maybe some think the bicycle should be a traditional
touring bicycle when God has in mind a mountain bike, bmx, or maybe even
a unicycle! It's all about premises and perceptions.
When in reality, God sees us all as one body .... one color .... one
purpose.
Bro Tyler
--
Bro Tyler Nally
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