The Seed of Abraham

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Bro. Walter:
>      ...Unto thy SEED will I give this LAND (Genesis
12:7).

Me:
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He
saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to
thy seed, which is Christ. 

Bro. Walter:
For all the LAND which thou seest, to thee will I give it,
and to thy SEED for ever. And I will make thy SEED as the
dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of
the earth, [then] shall thy SEED also be numbered (Genesis
13:15-16).

Me:
Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one
members one of another. 

Many, but one Seed: Jesus Christ.

Bro. Walter:
>      It is impossible to escape the conclusion that the
promise included features related to the physical seed of
Abraham and features related to the land given that seed.
It is necessary, then, to examine the areas of the SEED and
the LAND to determine their effect on future events.

Me:
Amen!  What I am driving at here is that there are promises
to Jesus/Church, Abraham's Seed, singular (we being many
are still one in Christ) and those to the children of
Abraham that "are as the sand of the sea" which are his
(Abraham's) EARTHLY  or natural children/seed.
 
Bro. Copes:
>      The plain teaching of Scripture that the seed of
Abraham, of necessity,
> is the term applied to the physical descendants of
Abraham. 

Me:
Yep.  These are the "dust" children (sand children above).

Bro. Copes:
 but the physical line of Isaac would inherit the promises
> given to the "seed of Abraham."

Me:
Yep.  This will be done when Jesus in the flesh receives
the Kingdom.

Bro. Walter: 
Those who ultimately possess the land in the future
millennium will also be of spiritual Israel. 

Me:
Jesus will posses the land and rule it with his "betrothed"
bride.  Abraham is in this number and so is Isaac when
Jesus lead captivity captive), therefore fufilling the
promise physically.  These/we are the children of heaven
numbered like the stars and the descendants of natural
Israel are the children numbered as the dust.

Abraham's natural and Spiritual Seed, Jesus will "posses"
the land and Abraham's natural children will "inhabit" the
land.  This unifies the division caused when Ishmael was
"ousted."

Bro. Copes:
Third, there is the spiritual seed of Abraham who are not
> natural Israelites. 

Me:
The Spiritual Seed are those that are in "Christ."

Bro. Copes:
 Because we are the seed of Abraham spiritually
> by the new birth, it does not mean we are the physical
seed of the patriarch.

Me:
Nope.  When I am in Christ, I, like Jesus, become the
physical as well as the Spiritual Seed of Abraham. 
 
>  TL> When has Jesus ever ruled in Jerusalem? This means
the real place
>  TL> BTW, not the New Jerusalem either.

Bro. Copes:
>      I certainly agree here. The church is not made
earthly promises. The
> promises to the chruch are spiritual and heavenly. For
instance, all one
> need do to prove that the church is heir to all the
promises of Israel need
> only go to Iraq and take over all the land west of the
Euphrates river. 

Me:
Well.... ;~)

Bro. Copes:
>      Why is the church being tried? What purpose is
served by this test. Has
> not the church been continually tested from the time it
cam into being on
> the Day of Pentecost? 

Me:
Sure has.  This is THE Great Tribulation, testing on a
scale like none other.  Grace like no other time in
History!  It's at the door step friends!

Bro. Walter:
What type of testing will be done which the church has
> not already gone through?

Me:
Nothing NEW.  The scale will bogle the mind though.  Think
of a man from Corinth the sin capital of it's day exposed
to the sin that is readily available at EVERY turn today. 
Even his head would swim!
 
>  TL> as is stated "these are they which have come OUT of
(the) great
>  TL tribulation."

Bro. Copes: 
>      I do not believe that it is necessary for the church
to suffer God's wrath. The entire 7 year period is a time
of God's wrath. 

Me:
This is harder than I though.  Check this out:  The Great
Tribulation=Indefinate period of trail of the church just
before the: RAPTURE=ALL believers taken to be with Jesus in
the AIR.  God marks the 144,000 to be IMMUNE to God's:
Wrath=DESTRUCTION of ALL that would not believe the Truth. 
The Man of Sin will TROUBLE Israel/Jacob for half of the 7
years and attack them in HAR MEGIDDO.  Jesus then RETURNS
to EARTH and crushes, literally, the army of the Man of Sin
with His Word.
Jesus (Abraham's Seed with the "Children like unto the
stars"/Old testament saints and Church) Rules the Land as
His inheretance which INCLUDES "the children Like unto the
sand of the sea" which are ALSO Abraham's seed. 

Bro. Copes:
>      The time of Jacob's trouble is 7 years aka "The
Tribulation" aka "The
> Great Tribulation."

Me:
The word tribulation is NEVER applied to the 7 years (last
seen in chapter 8) but the word wrath appears over and
over.....

Timothy Litteral
472 Grant St.
Marion Ohio 43302
brotim@gte.net
http://members.tripod.com/~trlitteral/