National Israel

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From: Joe Chancellor <browser@wt.net>
To: higher-fire@prairienet.org
Subject: Trubulation

 WC> 11) The death of Christ: Israel--guilty nationally, to be saved
 WC> by it;

 JC> I direct that portion of the letter to Brother Copes who I
 JC> BELEIVE is the author of the above statement...the rest I direct
 JC> to him and anyone else who would desire to offer some insight...

 JC> Weren't ALL of those saved by the NEW covenant Jews for like
 JC> ...the first 7 years or so?

That is my understanding. However, I do not discount the possibility that a
few Gentiles could have been in the number. There were apparently Jewish
proselytes at the time (non-Jews who were converting) and converted to
Christianity. But for all practical purposes the church at this time was Jewish.

 JC> Wasnt the NEW covenant made to the Jew FIRST?

     The new covenant promised to Israel was stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34,
where we read:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with
the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the
covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the
hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake,
although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the
covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith
the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their
hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall
teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the
greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I
will remember their sin no more (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

 JC> and aren't they as free as anyone else to have experienced
 JC> salvaton BY that covenant from then to now...?

I have found no biblical evidence that individual Jews have ever been
refused salvation by God simply because they are Jews. The Book of Acts
clearly tells me that the way of salvation is the same for the Jew as the
Gentile.

 JC> The main reason I ask this is that if there is one concept that I
 JC> have never been able to grasp....and I am well aware that this
 JC> concept may not be at ALL what you are espousing...but they are
 JC> at least similar in the respect that they seem to hold some
 JC> "different" salvation for the Jews at some later date....

I am not aware that there is an "different" way of salvation for the Jew at
some period after the present Church age closes. I have not found that
Scripture addresses such a "way." However, this does not preclude God from
fulfilling unconditional promises made to national Israel. One of those
promises was the possession of the land from the river of Egypt to the River
Euphrates. Israel has never possessed the land to this extent but rather a
portion of the land which today we call Palestine. At the time of Solomon
the influence of the government extended to a small portion of the Euphrates
River but the nation of Israel did not possess this land.

 JC> That OTHER concept that I have never been able to grasp is the
 JC> statement of when God "Turns BACK to Isreal"...I have heard that
 JC> all of my life...my question usualy is When did God turn FROM
 JC> Isreal? And in what way will he turn BACK to them?

Romans 10:1-13 tells us that Israel (national) needs the Gospel. Verses
14-21 lets us know that national Israel rejected the Gospel. Romans 11 lets
us know that God has not totally cast off national Israel and will at some
future date (future to the time the epistle was written) will be brought
into right relation to God. National Israel is made up of human beings. Thus
when national Israel is brought into right relation with God those people
who constitute the citizens will also be in right relation to God.

It is my contention that the church is ALREADY in right relationship with
God. The time known as "The Tribulation," "the Great Tribulation," "the time
of Jacob's Trouble" is the time when God brings national Israel into right
relationship with Him through the tribulation they suffer. Those who are not
brought into right relationship are judged and cast into outer darkness at
the Second Advent. Those in right relationship go into the Millennial as
living human beings and repopulate the earth. The church (of which we are
presently a part) during this time resides in the heavenly city known as New
Jerusalem.

Walter Copes
The joy of the Lord is my strength
(wcopes@communique.net)
Walter L Copes