The New Jerusalem

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From: "KATHLEEN DIMICK" <kdimick@colsa.com>
To: higher-fire@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: The Bride of Christ (long post)

 KD> You have misunderstood me.  In my quoting Revelation 21:9 I was
 KD> in **no** way claiming that God would 'marry...buildings'.  That
 KD> would be preposterous.  I find it difficult to believe that you
 KD> really thought I meant that.  I meant that:

     I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding and ask forgiveness.

     On a lighter side, I have been told precisely that the bride is the
physical city rather than the people and use this interpretation to justify
that the church is NOT the bride of Christ. My reaction was the same as
yours above. <:-)  Unfortunately they were not kidding around.

 KD> It is precisely because God couldn't possibly "have relationship
 KD> with such 'things'" that I quoted the verse and wrote the post.

     AMEN!!!

 KD> God certainly has demonstrated a propensity to take time with
 KD> physical things and make them both wonderful and elaborate
 KD> (speaking with reference to the Universe, man's body, the Temple
 KD> etc.)

     Like you is believe that the New Jerusalem is both physical and spiritual.

 KD> However, I feel (my opinion here) that too many people major on
 KD> the physical aspect of 'heaven' and not on the most excellant
 KD> reality of it that it will be heaven because Jesus will be there
 KD> and we shall be like Him because we will see him as He is.

     I agree!! He makes the whole thing worthwhile and meaningful. Without
Him there is nothing.

 KD> John was told he would be shown the bride who was the Lamb's
 KD> wife.  Then he was shown the city (which we commonly refer to as
 KD> Heaven or New Jerusalem). The city is the bride.  No interpreta-
 KD>tion, fact.

 WC> "For God so loved material things that He created a beautiful
 WC> physical city and married it." Copes 3:16 <:-)

 KD> Again, I cannot believe you really thought I believed this or was
 KD> trying to say anything as ridiculous as this.

     The above was meant to be tongue in cheek. I included the smiley face
to indicate that it was not to be taken seriously. Perhaps those who stress
only the physical aspect will get the message. <:-)

 WC> No, but "... in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word
 WC> may be established."  Matthew 18:16 (based on the principle set
 WC> in Numbers 35:30)

     Again I apologize. I have been in too many discussion with Calvinist on
the subject of the necessity of baptism. Since Scripture does not say it is
necessary every other passage they have concluded that it is not important
nor necessary for the remission of sins. It is hard for and old man to break
old habits. I apologize for the rudeness.

 KD> In my post to respond to Brother Litteral on this matter I wrote
 KD> that the fact that the Bride [clarifying to indicate this means
 KD> the actual saints of the Church] is the city in no way precludes
 KD> there from being actual buildings.  I will say now that it also
 KD> in no way precludes the city as detailed in Revelation from being
 KD> a discription of the beauty and splendor of the Church at the
 KD> time of her final inheritance; or, in other words, it could be
 KD> taken totally spiritualized instead of literally.  *** Please
 KD> note *** I am not usually one to deviate from a purely or mostly
 KD> literal interpretation of the Bible.  Nor do I affirm that this
 KD> is the rule for this passage. Wow, I am really trying to make
 KD> this clear and I hope I put enough disclaimers in this thing!
 KD> ?8^)

     I am in complete agreement with you one this point. Simply because I
believe it one way does not force it to be the only correct way even though
I do tend to support my views rather strongly.

 KD> I was born into millenia-old, deeply intrenched tradition, Ca-
 KD> tholicism.  I for one make it a practice not to take anyone's
 KD> word for anything where doctrine, salvation, the Bible, and my
 KD> soul are concerned.

     This is not on the subject but I would be most interested in knowing
what brought about your conversion to the truth. I was raised up around
Pentecost (Oneness) when I was a child and sort of drifted away then came
back as an adult.

 KD> "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
 KD> God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the
 KD> name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new
 KD> Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I
 KD> will write upon him my new name."    Revelation 3:12

 KD> The above verse, spiritualized or literal? or a bit of both? 
 KD> Specifically, literal pillar or spiritual pillar?

     Perhaps both. God uses physical things to demonstrate spiritual truth.
For instance, the physical relationship of marriage forces a certain degree
of spiritual closeness (in human terms) but which is based upon the
spiritual relationship which God would like us to have with Him.

Walter Copes
The joy of the Lord is my strength
(wcopes@communique.net)
Walter L Copes