The Strange New World

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> Steven Starcher writes:
                      

> Fundamentalism is a  modern ideology which captivates adherents by
> proclaiming
> >the human
> >ability to have a pure consciousness of reality, the existence of a
> pure
> >religious epoch, the apostasy of modern religious movements, and the
> > need to restore the pure bygone epoch of faith.
> 
>  michael L. cates wrote:
                              
> I believe the above statement in a nutshell describes your posts.
> You have a Fundamentalist doctrine also. The main Fundamental seems
> to be I'm OK , you're OK, Its all OK.  It seems that *your* doctrine
> is this: There IS no doctrine, only perspectives. Yes its true, we see
> through a glass darkly, but its only ONE glass -- not many.  There is
> a name for the kind of Fundamentalism you proclaim, it is called
> Liberalism..

Thank you for your response Brother Cates.  I will try to answer your
questions to the best of my ability.

The quotation you selected was part of a series of posts discussing "The
Strange New World" of plurality and ambiguity Apostolics find themselves
in.  In these posts I have sought to establish that the difficulty
Apostolics have with accepting both Apostolic diversity and Christian
diversity is caused by the Fundamentalist theology they embrace.  

I don't want to repeat a lot of arguments I have made in the past. 
Brother Naly calls that "blah, blah, blah, blah....!  And I agree!  I
would refer you to my posts on moderate Apostolics which define my
perspective and attitude toward liberalism.  Those who have read those
posts know that I am not a liberal.  I firmly believe that confessions
of faith, doctrines, do matter.  That these doctrines must correspond to
Holy Scripture and to the living faith of Christians.

In response to your post I would like to ask you to answer some
questions.  These questions are not intended to challenge your Apostolic
faith.  I want you to continue baptizing in Jesus name, preaching  the
baptism in the Holy Spirit,  teaching the fullness of God in Christ, and
stressing the importance of living a holy and godly life.  But I would
hope that you and other Apostolics would learn of the theological and
philosophical beliefs which have influenced, even control, your
expression of the Apostolic faith. My procedure will be to ask a
question and then explain the reason I have asked the question.  I want
to make sure that everyone knows that I have no hidden agenda. 


1.	What is Fundamentalism?

I ask this question because although I have repeatedly defined it in my
posts it seems a great number of subscribers have either not read my
posts or disagree with my definition.


2.	Are Apostolics influenced by Fundamentalism?

I ask this question because it is obvious that many Apostolics feel they
are not. Please include in you answer an examination of the writings of
some Apostolic theologians.


3.	What is Scottish Common Sense Philosophy and are Apostolics
influenced by it?  I ask this question because this is the dominant
philosophy of Fundamentalism.


4.	Do human beings possess a pure consciousness of reality?  

By pure consciousness I mean are they capable of understanding reality
as it really is without any historical or cultural factors influencing
their understanding.  I ask this question because Apostolics seem to
feel uncomfortable talking about the historical and cultural influences
which have shaped their faith.


5.	Is the Pope infallible?

I ask this question because I perceive a similarity between belief in an
infallible Pope and the belief in an infallible understanding of Holy
Scripture.


6.	Why do Apostolics interpret Holy Scripture differently?

I ask this question because I see a diversity of belief in the Apostolic
movement, a diversity resulting from the interpretation of Holy
Scripture.


7.	Does any thing or any one influence your understanding of
Christianity?

I ask this question because part of the reason for my posts was to help
Apostolics understand the different influences upon their faith.


8.	Why have Apostolics tried to define their movement as Evangelical?

I ask this question because responsible Apostolic denominational leaders
have gone to great lengths to establish Apostolic "orthodoxy" by noting
its similarities to Evangelicalism.


9.	Do you think Apostolics should develop their own theology and
Christian identity?

I ask this question because this is what I am attempting to do.  I do
not believe that Fundamentalist or Evangelical theology expresses the
Apostolic faith.  

10.  	Should Apostolics engage in dialogue with other Christians?  If
so, what is the basis for this dialogue and what should be the outcome?

I ask this this question because Nathaniel Urshan has sought to engage
the AOG in a dialogue about the Pentecostal faith, and this past week
Harold Hunter, director of an ecumenical Pentecostal fellowship was in
dialogue with J. L. Hall.  What are they talking about?


> I quoted the above verses because I haven't seen a single verse from
> the
> Bible introduced in these posts.  It has ALL been the word of man
> and I think a discussion about something as old fashioned as doctrine
> out to at least on occasion refer to the Bible as quaint as that may
> be.

If you have read my posts carefully you will see references and
allusions to Scripture.  In previous posts I have done some thorough
expositions of Scripture.  Check out Apostolic Salvation in the
Higher-fire archives. When my Web site is completed I hope to have
posted several expositions of Scripture I have made.

Also, you quoted some passages of Scripture.  Does that mean that all
Apostolics will have the same understanding of these Scriptures?  In
your Apostolic Church, does the pastor just stand behind the pulpit and
read the KJV Bible?  Or does he give Biblical insights into the
Christian faith in his own unique way, a sermon?  

The particular post you are questioning, however, is what theologians
call a Prolegomena.  This is a fancy term which really means "Things
which should be said first".  What a Prolegomena does is clarify what a
theologian is bringing to the text of Scripture, the influences which
determine his or her understanding of Scripture and mold his or her
theology.  Traditionally, Apostolics have not presented a Prolegomena. 
They seem to refuse to acknowledge that anything influences their
understanding of the Christian faith.  When I point out some of these
influences they feel very uncomfortable.  But, if we are to control what
influences us, we must understand what influences us.  Apostolics
rejoice when they hear that the doctrine of the Trinity is controlled by
Greek philosophy.  They cry "foul" and "heresy" when I point out the
Common Sense philosophy which influences their theology. A lot of my
posts on higher-fire have been Prolegomena because the Holy Spirit has
impressed upon me the need.  Those who have read the posts will be
better prepared to understand some posts I have in preparation, Being
Apostolic, and An Apostolic Understanding of Jesus.  You will enjoy
them!  They have a lot of Scripture!  And they are thoroughly Apostolic!


> Steven Starcher also writes:
> > while teaching theology to Apostolics.
> Where do you teach this "theology" and have you studied
> psychology?

When I subscribed to higher-fire my wife instructed me to be careful. 
"If you mention your educational background right away many will "turn
you off". "  Although I have discussed my academic background and future
plans privately with several on the list, I have not made them public. 
After several months on higher-fire I feel it is important to answer
your question.  Once again, I have no hidden agenda!

I have earned a M.Div. degree in Theology and Pastoral Ministries from
Mennonite Brethren Biblical Seminary and a M.S. degree in Special
Education from National University.  I have also studied at Western
Evangelical Seminary, California Theological Seminary, and California
State University Fresno.  I have applied for a Ph.D.. program in
Theology through the Graduate Theological Foundation and hope to begin
study this fall.  I am an ordained Minister with the Associated
Brotherhood of Christians, an Apostolic organization with headquarters
in Hot Springs, Arkansas.  

I am not currently pastoring.  Several years ago the Lord placed a
burden in my heart to work with troubled youth.  I completed a degree in
Special Education to be able to work with, (and be compensated for!),
some of the most difficult young people in our society.  I am currently
running a program, with a psychologist and two aides, for Seriously
Emotionally Disturbed adolescents.  These young people have been
physically and sexually abused and/or have serious psychological and
emotional problems.  They can be very aggressive and violent. We
frequently have to break up fights in our classroom.  Four students have
threatened to commit suicide this year.  One student slashed his wrists
at home 8 weeks ago.  Another threatened to kill me and had to be
physically restrained.  What a life I live! But I know it is where God
wants me to be!  Having been tenured this year, which means they will
have a really difficult time firing me, I am going to develop a
mentoring program to enable me to get these kids involved in Church. 
The love of a Christian community and the experience of jesus Christ
through the baptism in the Holy Spirit would solve a lot of their
problems!

Where am I teaching theology?  I am doing it secretly on higher-fire!  

Have I studied psychology?  Yes, but my wife insists that for me to be a
teacher of Seriously Emotionally Disturbed Adolescents is like the
"blind leading the blind"!

God Bless you Brother Cates!

Steve