Public Schools (Goals 2000, and such.)

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> From: Ronald J Bowden <flatfoot@juno.com>
> To: higher-fire@prairienet.org
> Subject: Re: Public Schools (Goals 2000, and such.)
> Date: Friday, August 23, 1996 7:30 AM
> 
> 
> On Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:22:53 -0700 "Bradley E. Young" <byoung@spry.com>
> writes:
> 
>  
> >I never intended to say that ACE is a *bad* program, it just has, in 
> >my
> >eyes, some deficiencies (and my wife, who graduated from an ACE 
> >school,
> >agrees with me!).  I think that paces should be re-tested 6-8 months 
> >after
> >the completion (with a lower passing score) to ensure that the pupil 
> >does
> >not just "cram".
> 
> And I didn't intend to say that everyone will be happy with the program;
> only that if the program is used correctly that it can meet the needs of
> MOST students.  I can retest you on any course that you take anyplace 6 -
> 8 months later and you are only going to retain a certain amount of it.  
True.  But you are less likely (because you have no reason to) to retain
knowledge when you cram and test, with no "after test".

>But it is apparent that the amount that students on the ACE program 
>retain is right up there with any other program and in fact surpasses
most. 
Not to be rude, but *prove it*.  Call me a skeptic.  This is my discomfort
with the ace program.  I have met plenty of ACE students who retain very
little of what they learn (and I believe that this stems from the rapid
study-test cycle)

> Why do you think that the students who graduate from ACE schools (where
> the program is run correctly) score as high or higher than other schools
> on College Entrance examinations?  
Again, *what proof do you have that this is the case?*  Please cite your
sources!  Anecdotal evidence is nice, but what you are saying should have
hard evidence.

> Come on, you have someone who feels
> the program did not meet their needs personally.  That is true in their
> case I am sure.  
In my wife's case, it did meet her needs sufficiently to go on to a
community college.  She *liked* the program.  That does not mean that she
does not see room for improvement.

> But it can meet the needs of anyone that wants to work
> the program correctly.  The proof is in the ones who have graduated and
> went on.
Never said that it was a bad program.  I said that there were some things
that I did not like about it.  I never said that ACE grads are somehow less
able than public schools.

Please don't set up straw man arguments!  I never said that ACE students
could not test well.  I never said that they could not get into college.  I
never said that they had a really horrible reading program.  Are you
unwilling to discuss the deficiencies that I see in the program?

 
> Again I am not saying it is for everyone.  But I can say that I spent my
> lifetime in a public school program locked into the same day by day
> assignments as the rest of the class whether or not I could keep up with
> them or I was finished in 5 minutes and it took them 45.  
So did I.

> I never took a book home to study because I didn't have to.  
Did that too.

> I crammed for tests the day before and got A's.  
I never crammed for tests, but still got A's.

> To put it mildly I was bored.  I wish I had the
> opportunity at a curriculum that I could have progressed on at my own
> speed 
So do I.  This is one of the things that I like about ACE.  However, it is
another one of your straw man arguments.

> and still been able to accomplish the ability to read and 
> comprehend at over 600 words per minut (which is typical of graduates
from ACE)
> and retain 94% of what I read.  
Again, cite your sources.  I can state this anecdotally for any program in
existence.

> I am not saying I couldn't have made it in the public program (of course
that is by being immersed in humanistic philosophy even then) but with the
incentives the ACE program offers I
> might have been much more motivated to do it.
Short term retention of read material is fine, I was referring to long term
retention.  Long term retention never comes from seeing how fast you can
read.  But what does humanistic philosophy have to do with reading?

> So all I am saying is that the inadequacies of which you speak are not
> inherent in the program or academic material.  
And I still say that they are.  You have not done anything to disprove
this.

> The opportunity to
> develop students far past what is offered in many other programs is
> available is it is taken advantage of.
I agree.
Bradley E. Young   Source Safe Perl script integrator guy
byoung@spry.com    +1.206.957.8249	http://home.sprynet.com/spry/byoung
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.