Marriage

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MeB4:
Speak the truth in love...

Jesus confronted people.  If you intend to be like Him, so will you.  ;-)

BroTom:
I guess the first thing I’d like to ask you, bro. Tim, is what then do you
do with this scripture?…

Me:
Ummm...  Try to rightly divide it.  ;->

Wow!  You haven't lost your flare to be *thorough*, have ya?  ;-)  Problem
is, this is just a HUGE straw man...  Let me illustrate.


BroTom:
Mat 5:25  **Agree with thine adversary quickly**, whiles thou art in the way
with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the
judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Me:
I hope you are not proffering that this means to agree with whomever has a
complaint against you or disagrees with you, especially if you believe very
strongly that they are wrong.  This means that if someone has a *legitamate*
complaint with you, make it right with them of your own accord and not of
force.

While this is of course sage advice in a marriage, it has nothing to do with
never arguing.  Why is it so hard to invision that the means by which you
can achieve this *agreement* is through a debate, and yes, with the
particularly hard headed, a heated debate complete with *sinless* anger?


BroTom:
Or with this scripture?…

Mat 5:39  But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall
smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Me:
What has this to do with telling someone that they mat be right when you
*HONESTLY* do not *believe* they are right.  The ***TRUTH*** is that you
think they are wrong, right?  ;-)  If you then love them, do you not, in
Christ Jesus OWE them the truth???

Not moved yet? :-) How about this next one, if I may ask, how does your
theology fit with it?…

Me:
Nope, not moved at all...

Jesus said things that made people MAD all the time:

Matthew 15
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the
Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

Yet He spoke the Truth in Love, did He not?

Jesus was angry without sin:

John 2
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the
changers of money sitting:

15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of
the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money,
and overthrew the tables;

16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my
Father's house an house of merchandise.

About love...

Leviticus 19
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise
rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Proverbs 9
8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will
love thee.

Proverbs 13
1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not
rebuke.

Proverbs 24
24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people
curse, nations shall abhor him:

25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall
come upon them.

Proverbs 27
5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Ecclesiastes 7
5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the
song of fools.

I haven't been married in a long time, but God has a wife for me in the very
near future.  I hope in Christ that I love her enough to rebuke her if she
is headed for what I even *think* is trouble.  AND may God bless me that she
love me enough to stand toe to toe with my HARD HEADED little self if she
even *thinks* I am headed for trouble.  She may have to shout to get my
attention.  Yet this can be done without sin.  I will prolly make her mad
sometimes.  Yet that can be done without sin.  It isn't peacemaking when you
*lie* to someone and tell them that you think they are right when you really
*believe* they are not.  The fact that they may be right is *totally
irrelevant* to the fact that you have NOT spoken the *truth* in love.  You
will, in that case, love *quiet* more than the person.  Otherwise you would
endure their wrath so that they would open their eyes to what you believe is
wrong.

Do you love me enough to risk making me mad?  If not, don't call yourself my
brother.  ;-)  I need someone who is willing to make me mad from time to
time.  How much love can a man claim if a little thing like that will
silence him in the face of the HARM that could befall me?

Yep, I have been VERY WRONG a time or two, and it is only the Grace and
Calling of God ALONE that has kept it to these isolated incidents (I am
slightly or partially worng a lot ;-).  Once on this very list I stated
catagorically that no one was ever baptized in the Holy Ghost.  <mouths
dropping open, people reaching for delete keys>.  Know what?  Someone
*loved* me enough to say, "Hey bonehead, what about Acts 1:5???  Know what
else?  He was *mad* at me too.  ;-)  My reaction?  I LOVE him!  Because of
his courage and righteous anger, a GRAVE mistake is now corrected!  That
would NOT have happened IF he had said, "You may be right."

How can I disagree with anything you wrote from there down?  I am a
peacemaker, if it can be had.  If it cannot be had, I know there is One that
Judges, the Word of God.  I try hard to see that this is what you get from
me either way:  Unto Judgement unto Life or unto death...

That way, *I* am covered:

Ezekiel 3
17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel:
therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him
not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save
his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will
I require at thine hand.

19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor
from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered
thy soul.

20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit
iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou
hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness
which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at
thine hand.

21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not,
and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou
hast delivered thy soul.

BroTom:
But hey, I could be wrong.


Me:
Oh, you're not wrong about what you wrote, you just misunderstood what I
wrote.  ;-)  Happens to the best of us...

BroTom:
Because, after all, like I said, this is just my perspective, isn't it?  And
therefore…

You could be right.


Me:
Seems a wise man wrote:

Romans 3
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when
thou art judged.

"be justified in thy sayings and mightest overcome when thou art judged..."
This is done by not giving a man's perspective, but God's.  ;->  Therefore,
I am ONLY justified when I say what God has said and I can ONLY escape
judgement when I live in accord with God's commandments.  I can do both and
be mad at you for a time.  ;-)  I can still do both and argue with you for a
time.  ;-)  I can certainly do both thinking you are wrong, whether that's
the real case or not, and telling you so, especially if you get mad at me.
I CANNOT do that by telling you that I think you may be right when in truth
I do NOT feel that way...

If I'm angry at someone, I OWE it to them to let them know, IF it might
prevent them from sinning.  I OWE it to them to let them know I am angry IF
it will help resolve the issues at contention.  If you love me and you see
me headed for death, you will rebuke me, whether I get mad or not.  If you
think I am wrong and you say otherwise, you have lied to me.

Should we always pursue peace?  Of course we should.  Is that always going
to be a peaceful process?  No way!

Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.

This has been forgotten in Christianity today!  Here are the Words of Christ
Himself saying that peace on this earth was not His PRIMARY goal.  Speaking
the truth in love will make you some enemies:

Luke 6
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their
fathers to the false prophets.

Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he
that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy
of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for
my sake shall find it.

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth
him that sent me.

It's time my brother to STOP mewling and puking peace and unity and start
speaking the truth in love!  If this means the wife has to go:  Pack her
bags!  If this means you throw the kids out:  Pack their bags!  If this
means you speak a death sentence to your own mother:  Speak in the Name of
the Lord!

But oh, my dear friend, if you endure the anger and they TURN from their
wicked ways unto Life!!!!
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The unity of Christ is ACROSS A LINE Y'all, and it is time to start
figgerin' out where we stand...

As for the topic of fighting in marriages without sin, there are exceptions
made for people to remain sinless who just plain cannot get along.  One of
these is to live separately while still faithful sexually.  To assume this
posture in a marriage is not a sin, else Paul would not have *suggested* it.
;-)  Is it not more loving to offer this possible escape from harm and sin
and bitterness to those who have done all in Christ and yet cannot agree
than to post some RARE though not impossible *bunch of grapes* just out of
reach?

*Strive* for peace and in marriage and for very short periods of time
(before sundown ;-), maybe even occasionally, *fight* for it.  ;->

I thank God for those who are mature enough in Christ to settle their
differences without any fireworks, but I also thank God that anger is not a
sin.  It sure has made MY walk a whole lot more bearable.  ;->

BURNING QUESTION:  How can you be angry and sin not?  :-D

Proverbs 27
17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Way I read this is that from time to time, a few *sparks* are gonna fly, and
NO, I can't be wrong.  ;->




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