Marriage

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

OK Timothy, I guess I still didn't explain enough.  FIRST he states his case
THEN he refuses to argue but he states his case VERY CONVINCINGLY first
(like the guy who said what about Acts 1:5)  You don't have to be passive to
not argue.  MeSeah
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Litteral <brotim@netzero.net>
To: higher-fire@prairienet.org <higher-fire@prairienet.org>
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Marriage


>MeB4:
>Speak the truth in love...
>
>Jesus confronted people.  If you intend to be like Him, so will you.  ;-)
>
>BroTom:
>I guess the first thing I’d like to ask you, bro. Tim, is what then do you
>do with this scripture?…
>
>Me:
>Ummm...  Try to rightly divide it.  ;->
>
>Wow!  You haven't lost your flare to be *thorough*, have ya?  ;-)  Problem
>is, this is just a HUGE straw man...  Let me illustrate.
>
>
>BroTom:
>Mat 5:25  **Agree with thine adversary quickly**, whiles thou art in the
way
>with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the
>judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
>
>Me:
>I hope you are not proffering that this means to agree with whomever has a
>complaint against you or disagrees with you, especially if you believe very
>strongly that they are wrong.  This means that if someone has a
*legitamate*
>complaint with you, make it right with them of your own accord and not of
>force.
>
>While this is of course sage advice in a marriage, it has nothing to do
with
>never arguing.  Why is it so hard to invision that the means by which you
>can achieve this *agreement* is through a debate, and yes, with the
>particularly hard headed, a heated debate complete with *sinless* anger?
>
>
>BroTom:
>Or with this scripture?…
>
>Mat 5:39  But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall
>smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
>
>Me:
>What has this to do with telling someone that they mat be right when you
>*HONESTLY* do not *believe* they are right.  The ***TRUTH*** is that you
>think they are wrong, right?  ;-)  If you then love them, do you not, in
>Christ Jesus OWE them the truth???
>
>Not moved yet? :-) How about this next one, if I may ask, how does your
>theology fit with it?…
>
>Me:
>Nope, not moved at all...
>
>Jesus said things that made people MAD all the time:
>
>Matthew 15
>12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the
>Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
>
>Yet He spoke the Truth in Love, did He not?
>
>Jesus was angry without sin:
>
>John 2
>14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and
the
>changers of money sitting:
>
>15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of
>the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers'
money,
>and overthrew the tables;
>
>16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my
>Father's house an house of merchandise.
>
>About love...
>
>Leviticus 19
>17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise
>rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
>
>Proverbs 9
>8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will
>love thee.
>
>Proverbs 13
>1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not
>rebuke.
>
>Proverbs 24
>24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people
>curse, nations shall abhor him:
>
>25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall
>come upon them.
>
>Proverbs 27
>5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
>
>Ecclesiastes 7
>5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the
>song of fools.
>
>I haven't been married in a long time, but God has a wife for me in the
very
>near future.  I hope in Christ that I love her enough to rebuke her if she
>is headed for what I even *think* is trouble.  AND may God bless me that
she
>love me enough to stand toe to toe with my HARD HEADED little self if she
>even *thinks* I am headed for trouble.  She may have to shout to get my
>attention.  Yet this can be done without sin.  I will prolly make her mad
>sometimes.  Yet that can be done without sin.  It isn't peacemaking when
you
>*lie* to someone and tell them that you think they are right when you
really
>*believe* they are not.  The fact that they may be right is *totally
>irrelevant* to the fact that you have NOT spoken the *truth* in love.  You
>will, in that case, love *quiet* more than the person.  Otherwise you would
>endure their wrath so that they would open their eyes to what you believe
is
>wrong.
>
>Do you love me enough to risk making me mad?  If not, don't call yourself
my
>brother.  ;-)  I need someone who is willing to make me mad from time to
>time.  How much love can a man claim if a little thing like that will
>silence him in the face of the HARM that could befall me?
>
>Yep, I have been VERY WRONG a time or two, and it is only the Grace and
>Calling of God ALONE that has kept it to these isolated incidents (I am
>slightly or partially worng a lot ;-).  Once on this very list I stated
>catagorically that no one was ever baptized in the Holy Ghost.  <mouths
>dropping open, people reaching for delete keys>.  Know what?  Someone
>*loved* me enough to say, "Hey bonehead, what about Acts 1:5???  Know what
>else?  He was *mad* at me too.  ;-)  My reaction?  I LOVE him!  Because of
>his courage and righteous anger, a GRAVE mistake is now corrected!  That
>would NOT have happened IF he had said, "You may be right."
>
>How can I disagree with anything you wrote from there down?  I am a
>peacemaker, if it can be had.  If it cannot be had, I know there is One
that
>Judges, the Word of God.  I try hard to see that this is what you get from
>me either way:  Unto Judgement unto Life or unto death...
>
>That way, *I* am covered:
>
>Ezekiel 3
>17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel:
>therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
>
>18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him
>not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save
>his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will
>I require at thine hand.
>
>19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor
>from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered
>thy soul.
>
>20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit
>iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because
thou
>hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness
>which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at
>thine hand.
>
>21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not,
>and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou
>hast delivered thy soul.
>
>BroTom:
>But hey, I could be wrong.
>
>
>Me:
>Oh, you're not wrong about what you wrote, you just misunderstood what I
>wrote.  ;-)  Happens to the best of us...
>
>BroTom:
>Because, after all, like I said, this is just my perspective, isn't it?
And
>therefore…
>
>You could be right.
>
>
>Me:
>Seems a wise man wrote:
>
>Romans 3
>4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
>That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when
>thou art judged.
>
>"be justified in thy sayings and mightest overcome when thou art judged..."
>This is done by not giving a man's perspective, but God's.  ;->  Therefore,
>I am ONLY justified when I say what God has said and I can ONLY escape
>judgement when I live in accord with God's commandments.  I can do both and
>be mad at you for a time.  ;-)  I can still do both and argue with you for
a
>time.  ;-)  I can certainly do both thinking you are wrong, whether that's
>the real case or not, and telling you so, especially if you get mad at me.
>I CANNOT do that by telling you that I think you may be right when in truth
>I do NOT feel that way...
>
>If I'm angry at someone, I OWE it to them to let them know, IF it might
>prevent them from sinning.  I OWE it to them to let them know I am angry IF
>it will help resolve the issues at contention.  If you love me and you see
>me headed for death, you will rebuke me, whether I get mad or not.  If you
>think I am wrong and you say otherwise, you have lied to me.
>
>Should we always pursue peace?  Of course we should.  Is that always going
>to be a peaceful process?  No way!
>
>Matthew 10
>34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
>peace, but a sword.
>
>This has been forgotten in Christianity today!  Here are the Words of
Christ
>Himself saying that peace on this earth was not His PRIMARY goal.  Speaking
>the truth in love will make you some enemies:
>
>Luke 6
>26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their
>fathers to the false prophets.
>
>Matthew 10
>34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
>peace, but a sword.
>
>35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
>daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
>law.
>
>36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
>
>37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he
>that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
>
>38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy
>of me.
>
>39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for
>my sake shall find it.
>
>40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth
>him that sent me.
>
>It's time my brother to STOP mewling and puking peace and unity and start
>speaking the truth in love!  If this means the wife has to go:  Pack her
>bags!  If this means you throw the kids out:  Pack their bags!  If this
>means you speak a death sentence to your own mother:  Speak in the Name of
>the Lord!
>
>But oh, my dear friend, if you endure the anger and they TURN from their
>wicked ways unto Life!!!!
>\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/
\
>0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/
>
>The unity of Christ is ACROSS A LINE Y'all, and it is time to start
>figgerin' out where we stand...
>
>As for the topic of fighting in marriages without sin, there are exceptions
>made for people to remain sinless who just plain cannot get along.  One of
>these is to live separately while still faithful sexually.  To assume this
>posture in a marriage is not a sin, else Paul would not have *suggested*
it.
>;-)  Is it not more loving to offer this possible escape from harm and sin
>and bitterness to those who have done all in Christ and yet cannot agree
>than to post some RARE though not impossible *bunch of grapes* just out of
>reach?
>
>*Strive* for peace and in marriage and for very short periods of time
>(before sundown ;-), maybe even occasionally, *fight* for it.  ;->
>
>I thank God for those who are mature enough in Christ to settle their
>differences without any fireworks, but I also thank God that anger is not a
>sin.  It sure has made MY walk a whole lot more bearable.  ;->
>
>BURNING QUESTION:  How can you be angry and sin not?  :-D
>
>Proverbs 27
>17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
>
>Way I read this is that from time to time, a few *sparks* are gonna fly,
and
>NO, I can't be wrong.  ;->
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________
>NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
>Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
>http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
>
>

________________________________________________________
NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html