For Your Information

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

>I know I will get jumped on by some of you, I hope I can take it.  But
some
>of the things I type here are for instances, BUT could really happen in
real
>life.  I have seen some situations simular.  So please be fair when you

>comment on my unsaved thinking, or what ever you will call it.

I can't speak for others, but as far as from me, if we share our
viewpoints in
a civilized manner, we can disagree without feeling liked you're getting
"jumped on" :-)

>><snip>First, let's take your point about "with God all things are
possible" -
>>.....God is all knowing, and He knows ahead of time who would accept
>>the truth *and follow thru* with getting baptized in Jesus name,
filled with
>>the Holy Ghost.

>If you believe this, then why do we have to even go out and witiness to

>people.  God knows who is going to be saved.  So we have no work to do
then.
>Right?  No Wrong!!!  God gives us freedom of choice.  If for some
reason
>there is a person in my life that I am suppose to speak something to
and I
>don't, say out of intimidation.  Maybe this is a mean person who is
very
>abusive either physically or emotionally and I am afraid to deal with
it.  I
>am being disobedient to God for not speaking what he wanted me to and
that
>person's salvation is delayed because of my disobedience.  God has
given us
>all free will.  He will not overstep that boundry.  He will not force
any of
>us to serve or be obedient to Him.
>But I suppose you will say that God knew He couldn't trust me so He
told so
>in so to witiness.  Well you get right back into Why witiness at all
God
>KNOWS  what everyone is going to do.

Why witness if God knows who will accept truth and who won't ?
- because even those who won't accept truth still deserve the chance to
accept it or not,
and *we* don't know who will and who won't, ....remember the parable of
the sower ?
- he sowed seed on all 4 types of ground, not just on good ground,
because everyone
deserves a chance, that's why we were commanded to preach the gospel to
*every* creature.

> Also you have satan himself throwing fiery darts to get us to fall.
>God can prevent anyone from dying He can even raise the dead.  That
doesn't
>mean He is going to.  Get real this is LIFE.  We have **all** fallen
short
>of the glory of God.  We have **all** sinned since we have been saved.
If
>you say you have not then you are lying.  What if you went into a state
of
>oppression, sinned and had not repented over it yet  and get hit by a
car.
>Do you think that God is going to spare your life just long enough so
you
>can repent and make it right, and then take you on home.  Just because
we
>are *saved* doesn't give us the right to be self righteous.  We have to
live
>a certain way.  If we do not we will suffer the consequences.

My original point about how God can prevent someone from dying if He
sees that
they would follow thru with baptism in Jesus name, Holy Ghost infilling,
ect.
was talking about that person's *first time* experience with becoming
truely born again,
......after we are truely born again, if later we continue to
deliberately sin we do risk
God's patience eventually running out and us losing out, but if we are
told to forgive
our brother 7 x 70 times a day (Matt. 18:21,22) then God isn't waiting
to give up on
us the first chance He gets, He is not willing that any should perish, -
now that does
not mean we should abuse His patience with us on purpose, that is
walking on
dangerous ground.  ......and who said anything about being
self-righteous ?, I've stated
more than once in my posts that we need to share the truth with the
right attitude.
We realize that but for the grace of God and someone's witness we would
still be lost.

>>Second, the one thing that *is* impossible for God to do is lie -
>> .......so when Jesus said that in order to make it to heaven we
>>*must* believe that He is the one true God in the flesh, and we *must*
be
>>baptized in His name and filled with His Spirit, and we *must* endure
>>till the end, is absolutely true and not just an "option", to
>>say that there are those who can still be saved without obeying His
"musts"

>Mark 16:16
>16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that
believeth
>not shall be damned.
>It says that if you don't believe you will be damned.  It *does not*
say
>that if you are not baptized you will be damned.

The reason it does not also say "he that is baptized not shall be
damned" is
because it is obvious that "if you believe not" you're not going to get
baptized
anyhow, therefore there was no reason to state "baptized not", Jesus
didn't
add "*and* is baptized" just to fill space, so it is not just an option.

>BUT I do agree that you *have to be baptized*
>I don't believe that it is for EVERY case.  God is
>God,  man is not God, we cannot even think of making those decisions.

If baptism isn't a requirement for everyone, then it isn't a requirement
for anyone,
yes, God is God, and if He can not lie, then *He* made the decision for
everyone
when He said *Except* a man be born of water and the Spirit he *cannot*
enter the kingdom of God.   ..........if baptism wasn't a necessity for
*everyone*,
Jesus would not have used the word *except*, ........I don't want anyone
to be
lost, and my old human reasoning would want to say "if someone is
sincere, it shouldn't
matter if they are baptized or not", but God knew the best way to do
things and He
is the author of the plan of salvation, so either He meant what He said
or He didn't,
and since He can't lie, I would tend to think that *except* means just
that.

>Matt7:1-2  **Notice verse 2  Don't just read one and run with it.  You
judge
>every time you say someone is unsaved.

How many times does this have to be repeated - if we quote God's Word,
and *His* Word says that unless you do "such and such" you are not
saved,
it is *not* us making that judgement, it is the Word of God, *not* our
words.

>They could (it could happen) be
>having a BAD day when you see them and say they are unsaved when in
fact,
>they could have been in church longer than you, and has went off the
deep
>end for the first time in their saved lives.**
>1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
>2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure
>ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Again, *we* are not to judge anyone, but God has given us the
responibility of
warning people of *His* judgement if they do not obey what *He* says in
*His* Word.
....and again, we are to do this with the right attitude. (II Tim. 2:25)

>John 1:12
>12 ^But as many as received him,^  **to them** gave he power to become
the
>sons of God, *EVEN* to them that believe on his name:

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting the above scripture, if it is
to imply that
people can be saved by *just* believing, then that perception is
incorrect,
.....first, it says "as many as received him", it doesn't say *how* to
receive Him,
just like when Jesus said we must "be born of water and the Spirit", He
didn't
say *how* we did that, to learn *how* those things were actually
accomplished
in a person's life we need to go to the book of Acts, obeying the gospel
is shown
to be: repentance, water baptism in Jesus name (born of water),
receiving the gift
of the Holy Ghost (born of the Spirit), we receive Him when we receive
His Spirit.
.....so *after* they "received Him" by obeying Acts 2:38 then *to them*
he gave
power to become the sons of God, and as far as *EVEN* to them that
believe
on his name, that does not mean *just* believing will save you, it means
that not
only the apostles and those that met Jesus in person, but salvation is
possible for
those who have never met Him in person and just know Him by name.

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast
believed:
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.  And many
other signs
truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written
in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:29-31


>Mark 9:23,24
>23 Jesus said unto him, **If thou canst believe, all things are
possible to
>^him that believeth.^**
>24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with
tears,
>Lord, I believe; *help thou mine unbelief.*
>Matt 18:6,7
>6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
it
>were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and
that he
>were drowned in the depth of the sea.
>7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that
offences
>come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the above verses, so
I don't
really know what point to respond to, as far as offending someone, to me
it
would be an offense to allow someone who does not know the true Bible
plan
of salvation to go on thinking they were ok and not at least try to
share the truth
with them.


"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all
men, apt to teach,
patient,  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God
peradventure
will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
II Tim. 2:24,25

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than
that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said
before,
so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than
that ye have
received, let him be accursed.  For do I now persuade men, or God? or do
I seek
to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of
Christ."
Gal. 1:8-10

So how do we reconcile the above 2 sets of quotes ?
.....first we should try to show people the true gospel (with the right
attitude) II Tim. 2:24,25
.....but the next quote would indicate that those who reject truth and
insist on
preaching another gospel, we should not consider as brethern who just
believe differently
on how to be saved, but we should not have fellowship with, - remember -
this is *after*
we try to show them truth (with the right attitude :-) and they reject
the truth, - even then,
we don't act nasty towards them or hate them, we simply obey the Word of
God and
don't fellowship with them or even bid them Godspeed, we just keep
sowing the truth elsewhere,
the time is short, and there are too many hungry souls to reach that
will accept truth to keep trying
to convince those who continue to reject truth, yes, you can continue to
pray for them that
perhaps later on they'll accept truth, but let's reach for new souls who
haven't even heard
the truth for the first time yet !