Re[2]: Tree of Knowledge

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

>>>>> "Michael" == Blume, Michael <mblume@porthole.entnet.nf.ca> writes:

    Michael> Don wrote and quote:

    >>> Christianity is not LAW, but grace.  Law came meerely to show
    >>> man that man cannot make himself righteous through works.  If
    >>> righteousness come by the Law then Jesus died in vain.  There
    >>> are two roads to righteousness.  One will never get YOU there,
    >>> though.  Law.  But GRACE WILL!

    >> Question: Then Why did Jesus come to fulfill the Law and not do
    >> away with it?

    Michael> The manner in which Jesus fulfilled the Law is by
    Michael> producing in us the very righteousness that the Law tried
    Michael> to put in us.  The reason Law could not was due to the
    Michael> sin in our flesh.  But Jesus came to redeem us, and
    Michael> cleanse us that the Spirit of God could indwell us.  With
    Michael> this Spirit in us, sin in our flesh now has a competitor
    Michael> - The Spirit.

    Michael> So we can lean towards the Spirit of God within us, or we
    Michael> can remain carnal and choose to continue doing the
    Michael> efforts, as though under Law, still.

    Michael> He did not do away with Law, per se.  He fulfilled it in
    Michael> the sense that the Law demanded a sacrifice for sins,
    Michael> since death is demanded since we have sinned.  Therefore,
    Michael> He became that sacrifice.  We died in Christ.  And the
    Michael> very righteousness that the Law also was intended to give
    Michael> to man, but could not, Jesus gave to us.  The Law was a
    Michael> schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (Gal. 3).  When Christ
    Michael> came we were no longer required to exist under a
    Michael> schoolmaster.  Does that mean the Schoolmaster is
    Michael> abolished?  No.  But it does mean we have nothing to do
    Michael> with it now.  It served its purpose.  It EXPIRED.  The
    Michael> expiry date would have naturally occurred upon our the
    Michael> date of indepenedent deaths, since the soul that sins,
    Michael> the Law said, must die.  And we all sinned.  But when
    Michael> Christ died for us, the expiry date was fulfilled for all
    Michael> who believe at the same time for all of us!!  2,0000
    Michael> years ago.

    Michael> Expiration does not imply abolition.  It implies
    Michael> usefulness of that which expired, but a usefulness that
    Michael> is now unecessary.  Grace honours that Law which expired.
    Michael> It COMPLETES the work.  Look at it as though Moses
    Michael> brought man to the Jordan and Law could get no further,
    Michael> in a sense.  Jesus began where Moses left off at the
    Michael> Jordan and takes us in. (Joshua, in the Exodus story
    Michael> foreshadows Christ, for that name is Hebrew for the Greek
    Michael> JESUS).

    >> It is true that righteousnes does not come by the works of the
    >> Law because the Law condemns all flesh revealing our sin as
    >> sin.(it reveals our separation from God) But through Faith by
    >> grace we uphold the moral part of the law (moral Law also
    >> referred to as the spirit of the Law) shown here: Mat 22:36
    >> Master, which is the great commandment in the law?  Mat 22:37
    >> Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all
    >> thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  Mat
    >> 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.  Mat 22:39 And
    >> the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
    >> thyself.  Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law
    >> and the prophets.  We are saved by grace (Jesus' act of self
    >> sacrifice and resurrection) but we are still responsible to
    >> obtain through this grace obeidience to the moral law.  God's
    >> law is not evil man is,

    Michael> Amen.  I hope you are saying that we will live the very
    Michael> things the Law commanded us to live, morally, but we will
    Michael> not do it through a commandment and obedience type
    Michael> manner.  We will do it through grace.  I am stressing
    Michael> that GRACE will strengthen us to do what the MORALITY of
    Michael> the Law tried to force us to do.  The ordinances and
    Michael> ceremonies are nailed to the cross.

    >> before Adam and Eve blew it the upheld the law without knowing
    >> it because of there relationship with God.

    Michael> That's it!! You got it!  We, too, uphold the Law almost
    Michael> as though we do not know it due to the residing Spirit of
    Michael> God living through us.  The only difference is that we
    Michael> can know we are fulfilling Law since we have its records
    Michael> in the Old Testament.  We are brought back to where Adam
    Michael> was before the Fall in the sense you give above!

    Michael> And I like the manner you or another said that we can
    Michael> measure our leading of the SPirit by looking at the
    Michael> morality the Law demanded in man.  But, for us, it is a
    Michael> looking back, in a sense, since we do not look at the Law
    Michael> and THEN try to be good by obeying a list of rules.  We
    Michael> instead are already living righteously if we are truly
    Michael> led by the Spirit and Christ lives in us, as He did in
    Michael> Paul, through our faith, and we KEEP oursleves in Christ
    Michael> when perhaps prompted by Law reminding us that, "Hey!
    Michael> You must have pure love and unfeigned faith! (1 Tim.
    Michael> 1:5)")

This is all very beautiful and true, but that Spirit is still dwelling
in temples of human flesh.  If it were merely automatic that once a
person recieved the Holy Ghost he would instinctively obey the law
without even thinking about it, then there would be no need for new
converts' classes; there would be no need for John to write "you have
lost your first love"; there would be no need for Paul's letters to
the church at Corinth.  The reality is that although we are Holy Ghost
filled and guided, and forgiven, we are still at the wheel of our own
decisions.  "The spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets."
We still are capable of making mistakes.  We need sound doctrine,
instruction, and reproof.  We need to study that we might show
ourselves approved.

I am not saying that you implied otherwise, but just emphasizing that
receiving the Holy Ghost is not the end, but the beginning of a life
lived for God.

    >> But once they got there eyes off of God and disobeyed.  Why?
    >> there confidence in the character of God was gone.  In Christ
    >> Don

    Michael> And the same with us today!!!

    Michael> Praise God!  MBlume

-- 
--"Hear now my reasoning, and harken to the pleadings of my lips." [Jb 13:6]--
Robert J. Brown  (Bob/Rj)   rj@eli.wariat.org  1 708 705-0370 (vmail/fax/data)
Elijah Laboratories Inc;  759 Independence Drive;  Suite 5;  Palatine IL 60074
-----  M o d e l i n g   t h e   M e t h o d s   o f   t h e   M i n d  ------