TWA 800

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

> Reactions?  Input?  Output?  
> Potential Urban Legend?   

There's quite a bit of discussion in a.f.urban-legends right now.  The
clearer heads are dismissing this theory, the conspiracy nuts are out
in full force.

It's seems to have started out with a (quickly debunked) AP story about
some witnesses seeing a flash of light in the sky nearby.  This grew to
100 witnesses, to "150+" witnesses, to "over 300 credible witnesses" in
the accounts I've seen -- like that fish that got away which keeps
getting bigger and bigger.  Since we have 300 credible witnesses seeing
-- wait, it's not a flash of light anymore, it's an actual *trail* of
light -- this "missile," the  missile theories starting abounding the
more.  At first it was portable SAM's.  But after it was quickly
pointed out that SAM's don't have nearly the range, the story has now
evolved to the point that it's a coverup of a mistake by the US Navy
involving: (1) the president (2) the NTSB (3) Navy radar-plane pilots
(4) dozens of people involved in the recovery effort (5) the FBI (6)
the entire crew of 350 officers, chief petty officers and enlisted men
on whatever destoyer shot the plane down and possibly (7) Elvis, JFK,
and Little Green Men from Mars.  They probably have all the evidence at
Area 51 in the Nevada desert, where we can also find the original
Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Does my disdain show through yet?  Allow me to present the evidence so
you can decide for youself.

It's interesting about the TWA pilots thinking it was Navy who shot
their colleague down.

> > Navy P-3 radar planes track and evaluate the missile shots with their
> > onboard instrumentation.  A P-3 aircraft was on a southwest heading
> > about over the top of TWA 800.

*groan* The P-3C Orion is an ASW plane -- they don't track missiles or
other airborne targets, they hunt and kill submarines.  They carry MAD
equipment, sonobuoys, torpedoes, depth charges, mines and Harpoon
anti-ship missiles.

Why would a guided missile cruiser be firing towards a P-3 anyway, as
the above paragraph implies?

The radar plane used by the US Navy is the carrier-based E-2C Hawkeye.
If this plane was up there, flying "over the top of TWA 800" has the
author alleges, it would *certainly* know about the presence of the
civilian airliner so nearby.

According to the Navy, the only exercise going one was a search-and-
rescue exercise.  There were no reports of destroyers or cruisers in
the area.

> > The P-3 was SKIN PAINT, or a non-beacon target.  (This means that his
> > transponder was turned OFF.  Transponders reply to ATC radar and show
> > a well defined radar target on the controller's scope, complete with
> > ID and altitude.

ATC also has active radar for non-transponder targets.  A target has to
show up for a certain number of minutes before it "registers" on the
scope, but the Orion is a slow-moving propellor plane which cruises at
350 knots so the allegation that the P-3 had its transponder off is
irrelevant.

> > You will remember that the first announcement about this accident came
> > from the Pentagon.

A supposition disguised to look like a fact.  "You will remember...."
No, actually I don't remember.

> > Navy to the crash site.  They immediately sent a Navy Captain, who was
> > replaced the very next day by a one-star Admiral from Norfolk.  That
> > admiral is still on the scene as of 8-23-96.  At least 5 Aegis
> > destroyers are based in Norfolk.

An admiral came from Norfolk.  There are destroyers based in Norfolk.
There you have it folks -- a Navy coverup!

Did you know the USS Trenton (LPD 14) is also based at Norfolk?  This
an "amphibious transport dock ship" and is being used as the floating
command post for TWA 800 recovery/investigation efforts.  The Trenton
replaced the USS Oak Hill (LSD 51) which is also based in Norfolk.
They probably shipped an admiral up there because of the very high
profile of this case, what with the mayor of New York whining about
the workers being too slow to recover bodies from 100+ feet of water.

It would be interesting to hear what the scuttlebut down in Virginia
is amongst the Navy people.  Sis Colleen?

> > The NTSB is there in name ONLY.  All announcement made by Mr. Bob
> > Francis say absolutely nothing and notice that the FBI is always
> > standing beside or behind Mr Francis and it would appear that his job
> > is to make sure that nothing is said that would give away "THE BIG
> > SECRET!"

The FBI is involved because there's also a potential criminal
investigation.  Why would the FBI be involved in a Navy coverup?
We're also adding the NTSB into 

> > Sources which are very, very familiar with the 747 report that a
> > mechanical cause is almost impossible, especially since the data and
> > voice recorders give no information.  A mechanical or structural
> > failure would have given some warning to the pilots if only a few
> > seconds.  The primary cause had to be a large explosion.

The NTSB still hasn't ruled out mechanical failure, tho.  The official
word from them: "We just don't know."

> > The chemical traces found which are consistent with a bomb are also
> > consistent with the explosive compounds used in military missiles.

It's already been determined that that particular aircraft was used
to ferry troops and equipment to Desert Storm.  It's been theorized
that the chemical traces might be from that deployment.

> > Aegis missiles, unlike Stinger missiles and those likely to be used by
> > a terrorist, are not heat seekers.  Thus, the recovery of intact
> > engines do not explain away an Aegis missile hit.

There's no such thing as an "Aegis missile" -- Aegis is the name of the
whole combat system.  The surface-to-air missile used on Navy ships is
the "Standard Missile."  The medium range version is over 14 feet long
and weighs over half a ton.  The extended range version is 26 feet (8
m) long and weighs 3000 pounds (1340 kg)!  Missiles, even though they
explode, leave quite a bit of physical evidence of their passing
existence.  The things are as big a trucks!

I think maybe the writer is confusing this incident with one in 1988,
where the Aegis-equipped guided missile cruiser Vincennes did shoot
down a civilian airliner, an Iranian Airbus over the Persian Gulf.
There was no cover-up here, though.

Aegis is like a super-fancy air-traffic control system -- radar and
other input and fancy displays identifying all the targets.  They can
also take radar data from Hawkeyes operating in the area.

In the Persian Gulf in 1988, the Vincenness thought she was shooting at
an Iranian F-4 or something since the airliner took off from a
joint-use airport (i.e. military and civilian traffic) and the airliner
was using a military IFF transponder.  The Aegis system showed this
thing flying toward them to be a military threat, so they shot it
down.

A destroyer operating off of Long Island is certainly gonna be watching
out for civilian traffic -- they are *not* expecting military threats.
Why are they gonna shoot a 3000 lb missile toward (a) civilian airspace
(b) the heavily inhabited Long Island area and (c) their own E2C radar
plane?  This theory is so ridiculously moronic it's almost unbelievable
it's seeing the exposure it's seeing.

> > The airplane would not be pressurized (at least not very much) at that
> > low altitude.  Therefore, a small bomb in the cabin would likely not
> > have such immediate catastrophic effect.  Large cargo hold bombs have
> > all but been ruled out.

I had severe altitude sickness at the top of Mount Fuji -- about 3000
meters or 10,000 feet, which is where TWA 800 was when it exploded.
Aircraft are certainly pressurized when they're 2 miles up in the air.

Richard "closet naval warfare nut" Masoner