Enough Already!

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On Wed, 02 Oct 1996 02:13:35 EDT, you wrote:

>>1 - I hope you are smarter than this, and have a little patience
>
>This situation has lasted for many years now.  Try 1976 for starters.

You were 2 years old at the beginning, if I read your mail right.
Patience in the biblical sense does not mean putting up with something
you don't like for a while. It means adbiding in peace with things
that are difficult for you without sight of relief.

>I never talked about anyones shortcomings.  I just told the facts as
>I was told them from *both* sides of the coin.  I left the name of
>the church and its pastor out to protect their identity.  Many know
>the church I attend so it was pointless to hide that fact.  
>
>Now, this situation is not rare.  In fact, I know of a very similar
>situation of 2 other churches in the same town not to far from here.  
>One church calls the other one names, and refuses to fellowship them.
>I am also positive that it is happening in many other churches, states,
>etc.
>I have heard the stories and seen the problems.  To sweep this under
>the rug is crazy.  It IS a problem and it needs to be discussed.   Once
>again, the reason I brought it to everyones attention was to see their
>opinions and possibly what they have done in a similar situation.  
>I note your opinion however do not feel I am wrong for expressing
>my feelings toward what I feel to be a childish game played between
>churches.  

OK, ok... this is not going to go anywhere. 

I would not agree with some of the things you have cited, of course.
However, these issues are not under the judisdiction of interested
onlookers. To elect oneself to correct a man of authority is a very
serious thing.

Also, if the word gets out (since one can without a lot of trouble
determine the subject church and pastor), that the internet (the list
in particular) is being used to clothesline preachers and hold them up
to judgement, there will be fireworks the likes of which you have
never imagined.

The way to handle these deals is prayer, Bro Chris. God CAN and DOES
correct his children. If the pastor there is not a child of God, then
the issue is not addressable anyway. If he is, people messing with the
man in a forum like this and even encouraging someone to cause
friction and attempt to correct through meddling conversations with
saints is not bad.

In some sense you are discussing regionalisms. There are many places
throughout the world where it is the NORM in Apostolic churches that
men and women pray and sit on separate sides of the church. 

In anther sense you are discussing a private situation. You cited the
preacher pointing at a woman when talking about a sinful situation. We
are generally taught that this is bad manners or worse. However, there
is actually NO WAY for any of us to know whether the situation was
called for or not. In fact, its not my business, nor anyone elses to
judge that pastor. 

I can assure you, if he has situations on his hands there, which you
cannot even concieve of, and God is dealing with some personal
situations through him, and you decide it is not according to your
fashion, getting your nose in the middle of it, the slap that God will
give you will sit you down for a year. That is a pretty fair
accessment too, in my own personal experience.

I read and agreed witht he wording and the sentiment of Bro Cantu..
You also know that I have been and advocate when they were complaining
about your participation in the A/G mail list, so I have nothing
personal against you. Just think that what you are messing with there
can be a real problem. I certainly dont enjoy the gossip on the list.


Lets look at a few of the hits this guy has taken already here... from
people who do not stand in his shoes, nor bear his responsibility:

>  Cannot wear a expensive watch.( the pastor, I am told by one of his
>  saints, buys a new cadillac every year and trades the old one in.  
>Has  a brand new 96 fullszed chevy truck.  State of the art exercise
>  equipment.  3 or 4 horses. )

Condemning the pastors ownership of cars is a common slander. There
are people who hate us and tell me these stories about fine preachers
throughout the fellowship all the time. 

> Woman have to wear sleaves past their elbows.

This is not all that unusual. I hear jokes about it, just like you
do.. I also see the places where the ladies raise their hands and you
look right into their blouses, on the platform. :(
No such rule here. Not sure there might not be, if it were needed.

> Men must wear long sleaves.

This is not all that unusual, though not locally here.

> Ordelry fashioned running the aisles.  Men and woman run seperate.

I dont agree with restricting the physical activity by routine but we
have had to subtly stop some realy crazy stuff from time to time that
was definitiely not of God.

> Woman must wear hair up during church, any other time, if worn
> down, must be curled and not straight.

Some Bible schools even do this :)  I can't figure this out either.
But when you condemn it, youhave nailed some real fine people.

> No fellowship with churches who did not follow these standards.

Hmm... ok, assuming that you are refering to good churches, I have a
problem with this.. But, by example, we hold some standards, and we
dont fellowhip with the snakepit nearby (they dont hold any standards
that I know of), and that decision is an administrative one, that I am
not ashamed to be responsible for.. Here, you are talking about
personal judgements. Its really small potatoes considering some of the
problems that can and have arisen and that God has dealt with over
time.

> Must have permission from pastor to buy car, house, etc.

Hehhee... really ? I wonder exactly how effective this kid of a rule
is. You think many people observe it ? If people dont, does the pastor
stop accepting their tithes ?

> No excuses for missing church.

I dont like them, but I get 'em, of all kinds. :)

> Sundays, you have to wear your best outfit! Any other night you can
>wear your other suit coats, dresses, etc.  

This is starting to sound comical. I wear my "Sunday best".. I shuder
to think that people are starting to not care at all. One day it may
be nsesseary to rule that you must brush your teeth before coming to
church :)

> No kisses allowed in the church parking lot, it is God's property.

I  am in COMPLETE agreement with this, and so would you be if you had
seen some of the things that I have.