Can God do all things???

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

In a message dated 97-10-28 01:04:04 EST, grimel@ibm.net  writes:

Harrell01 originally wrote:
<< > so I'd think we'd be much safer at leaving unanswered
 > questions just that, instead of applying logic and reason and maybe
 > ultimately creating a doctrine among our individual following.>>


You: 
 Not applying logic and reason to the Bible and science is why we have
 these problems today.>>

Me:
I'd have to agree with Bro. Harrell here:
1 Tim 1:4
4	Neither give heed to *fables* and *endless genealogies*, which *minister
questions*, rather than *godly edifying* which is in faith: so do.

You:
 <<1) The Bible isn't a scientific text, yet where the Bible makes claims
 in the realm of science there can be no conflict.  The Bible should
 agree with science.>>

Me:

Actually, *science* should agree with the Bible.


 You:
 <<2) The religious community has in the past made statements concerning
 the Bible and science that were completely wrong.
 i.e. in the 1600's Galileo was forced to recant that the earth revolved
 around the sun.  Now, everyone believes the earth goes 'round the sun. 
 STRIKE ONE against religion.>>

Me:

STRIKE ONE against the *religious community*, not against the Word of God.
BTW, what was the scientific viewpoint previous to this time regarding the
rotation of the sun and planets? Perhaps the religious community got into
trouble *because* they had agreed with scientists.

In fact, the "shadow of turning" in James 1:17 (written during the first
century by a *religious*, not scientific, man), can only be fully understood,
and properly interpreted by knowing the actual relationship of the Earth and
Sun, not what was commonly accepted at that time. I guess that it just goes
to show that the Bible was actually authored by God, and that these religious
men wrote what God spoke, not what seemed *logical*.

 You:
 <<3) When the Bible and science disagree, either the Bible is
 misinterpreted or the science is faulty.>>

Me:
Agreed, but you won't get many scientists to agree with this statement. They
want to prove that the Word of God is *faulty*, not merely misinterpreted.

In fact....."Galileo wrote a long, open letter on the *irrelevance* of
*biblical* passages in scientific arguments, holding that *interpretation of
the Bible* should be *adapted* to increasing knowledge ..." 
Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c) 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright
(c) 1994 Funk & Wagnall's Corporation.

Irrelevance of the Bible, re-interpretations and new adaptations of the Bible
to fit man's knowledge? Sounds more than a little arrogant to me.


You: 
<< 4) The Bible is for how to live, science is how things work.>>

Me:
I believe that it's quite a bit deeper than that, but the Bible, and a true
study of *pure* science, are complementary. The Bible *can* answer all those
questions that science *cannot*.

A good example is the law of conservation of mass and energy. Since these are
constant, and cannot be created, only converted from one form to another,
where did all this "stuff" come from?

The answer: 
Col 1:16-17
16	For *by him* were *all things created*, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, *visible* and *invisible* , whether they be thrones, or dominions,
or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17	And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

So, we see that God created visible things (matter), and invisible (energy).

Bro. Harrell: 
 > Scientist will have us to believe that's what happened, and from a natural
 > standpoint, it sounds good and is logical. But I would not even venture to
 > tie that in with Bible creation.
 
You:
 <<Besides, for all the grief I've
 given the Big Bang theory, it is a fairly accurate description of
 Genisis 1's sequence.>>

Me:
????
Heb 11:3
3	Through faith *we understand* that the worlds were framed by the *word of
God*, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 You:
 <<IMO, it is time for Christianity to stop fighting in a realm in which it
 has limited knowledge.  Theologins are not nearly as expert in theology
 as scientists are in science.  This has resulted in science looking at
 religion as illogical, holding to myths that have been proven false. 
 This opinion is still held today, because our people remain, by and
 large, ignorant of what science really says.
  >>

Me:

Well, personally not being all that ignorant of science or theology, (having
been a serious student of Physics, Engineering, and God's Word), I find it
hard to believe that anyone can study both, and fail to see the harmony they
exhibit. (But, I guess that is because I was filled with the Holy Ghost
*prior* to going to college.)

As far as "myths proven false", I'd like to see one from the Bible itself,
properly interpreted. In a previous post (check the archives), I referred to
a scientific publication that listed over 50 scientific *facts* that
contradicted and therefore *disproved* the Bible. Since then, all of these
scientific facts have been *scientifically* disproven. What was that about
"myths proven false"?

Probably one of the most obvious cases of ignorance on the subject of science
vs. religion happened a few years back, when a father had taken the school
system to court to force them to teach creation as well as (not instead of)
evolution. The very eloquent attorney for the state actually said that "there
was no way that the two could possibly agree, and that science was proven,
and therefore correct." A little later, he admitted that his personal
knowledge of science was extremely limited, and that he had *never* read the
Bible!!

Maybe it's time for the *scientists* to quit fighting in a realm in which
they have limited knowledge. Remember, "... the *natural* man receiveth not
the things of the Spirit of God: for they are *foolishness* unto him:neither
can he know them".

So, should we care if *they* say we look foolish?
1 Cor 1:25
25	Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; 

It is through their own wisdom and logic that many don't know who God is:
1 Cor 1:21
21	For after that in the wisdom of God the world *by wisdom knew not God*, it
pleased God by the *foolishness* of preaching to *save* them that believe.


In summary:

1 Cor 2:4-15
4	And my speech and my preaching was *not* with enticing words of *man's
wisdom*, but in demonstration of the *Spirit* and of power:
5	That your faith should not stand in the *wisdom of men*, but in the *power
of God.*
6	Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the *wisdom of
this world*, nor of the princes of this world, that *come to nought*:
7	But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which
God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8	Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they
would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9	But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have
entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them
that love him.
10	But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth
all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11	For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is
in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12	Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is
of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13	Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the *Holy Ghost* teacheth; comparing spiritual things with
spiritual.
14	But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are *foolishness* unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
15	But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is *judged of
no man*.


So, as the "scientists" call us illogical, ignorant, believing in myths, etc.
, I realize that the "wisdom of this world'  will "come to nought".

As far as all of the years I have spent studying science, are they wasted? Of
course not, since I can see the Creator in His creation. 
Ps 19:1
1	The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his
handywork.

But, 
Phil 3:8
8	Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the
knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all
things, and do count them but *dung*, that *I may win Christ*,


Pastor (Tau Beta Pi, Sigma Pi Sigma, Phi Kappa Phi, Omicron Delta Kappa)**
Joe
**The scientific and academic communities will recognize their own national
honors *they have bestowed upon me* (which in the end will add up to nought),
but I'd like to see a little of their "credentials" when they enter into a
discussion of the Word of God.
(I showed 'em mine, now I'd like to see theirs.)