tithes in Gen

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>(Lynne)
>It seems to me that the problem here is the spirit of the matter. I 
>still believe that the NT spells out tithing plainly enough,

I have yet to see ONE NT scripture that talks about tithing being
continued.

>John the Baptist said to the Pharisees " Begin not to say within
>yourselves we have Abraham to our father." (Luke 3:8)  

This is happening in the Old Testament, although the four gospels are
arranged in what we would call the New Testament, until Pentecost, it was
the Old Testament.

>" Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we
>establish the law." Romans 3:31.
>
>The spirit of the law should be established in our hearts without 
>someone standing over us with a stick.  

Agreed.  But you would not apply this to ALL OTHER aspects of the Law,
would you?  If you would not, then what is the scripturally determining
factor to make you specifically apply this to tithing?

Also, if we ARE to tithe, then we need to follow the OT plan and that is
plainly not happening and is not even being suggested.  All I hear about
is, for lack of a better phrase a "Flat Tithe" of ten percent.

Such a tithe is not even scriptural in the OT!  Why should we support it
in the New?

Again, could you answer my questions?

1) WHAT limitations and/or additions have been made to the OT tithe?

2) WHEN were these changes made?

3) WHO authorized these changes?

4) DID they have scriptural authority to make such changes?

>Abraham was not justified by works but by faith: yet ABRAHAM PAID
>TITHES!! The law was written that we might know what sin is! 

Then by your reasoning, Peter, the other Apostles and the Elders were
clearly WRONG in not attempting to urge the Gentile brethren to adhere to
the Law, thus opening them to committing SIN.

>What?!  The law is good? That is what Paul said.  We fulfill the law 
>because of love and not because of a carnal commandment.  Who is the 
>carnal commandments written for?  The lawless and disobedient.

So are you literally saying that those filled with the Holy Ghost will 
follow the Law as it is stated in the OT?

>There is a concept that must be understood here.  If works are done
>because faith is the motivator, God is well pleased.  If works are 
>done to try to earn salvation, God is not pleased.  Our motivator must 
>be love. We are saved by the blood.

This actually goes COUNTER to most arguments supporting a mandatory NT
Tithe.

>" They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.  Jesus saith 
>unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of 
>Abraham." John 8:39
>
>Why were the Pharisees not doing the works of Abraham?  Because they 
>did not do the law in faith.

Ahh, but THEY TITHED!  Even to the point that they tithed the herbs in
their gardens.  Jesus specifically pointed this out to them.

>Abraham paid tithes and we are Abraham's seed.  Jesus said if we were 
>Abraham's children that we would do the works of Abraham.  We have a 
>new covenant.  Abraham's covenant was circumcision.  We have a new 
>covenant of God's law's being put into our heart.  If we are Abraham's 
>children we will continue in his ways and in his covenant which is now 
>a new covenant.

So you ADMIT that there was a change in circumcision, right?  We can even
agree that there are scriptures that show us where, when, by whom, etc
this was changed.  But you say that tithing was continued?

Seriously, do you have one piece of historical evidence that shows that
the Pre-Nicene NT Church tithed?

I'm just asking for ONE...

>Paying tithes:  AWWW!  Do we HAVE to?  As for me,  You won't see me 
>not paying tithes. "Shew me thy faith without thy works and I'll shew 
>thee my faith by my works."

Then you are giving offerings cheerfully as it is supposed to be in the
NT.

Jerry Welch
ICQ: 18489712
www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2810/

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