The Apostolic Dialogue With Catholics 3

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Matthew Shaw wrote:

> Bro. Starcher, acknowleding similarities is one thing, but I think you
> *do*
> suggest that we should recognise their experiences as salvational.
> There
> are similarities between purple and blue, but they'll never be the
> same
> colour=)

Good to hear from you Brother Matthew!

You are right Brother Matthew.  I do believe that other Christians
experience the reality of God's Salvation. Similarities do not imply
identity.  I don't believe that the Apostolic experience of salvation is
identical with that of other Christians.  In fact, in many cases, it is
radically different.  At the same time similarities between Apostolics
and other Christians can be a valuable tool for witnessing to the
truthfulness of the Apostolic faith.

> [Matthew]:
> And, Bro. Starcher, this is wonderful!  If you can use dialogue this
> way.
> Every Apostolic would do good to learn the value of productive
> dialogue and
> the extreme error or militaristic elitism.  We are privileged to have
> a full
> understanding of doctrine, but we should never use that great blessing
> as an
> advantage over others who are making an honest effort to better
> understand
> Jesus Christ.

You have stated my thoughts and the desire of my heart exactly Brother
Matthew!

 
> [Matthew]:
> So you do believe that these other Christians are actually saved?

I believe that other Christians experience the reality of God's
salvation.  I have responded to this question in my response to Brother
Clifton and to avoid being repetitive I would appreciate it if you would
read that response. (Gotta save that hard disk space!)

> [Matthew]:
> Brother, you cannot possibly believe that the National Gay Pentecostal
> Alliance is not deceived!?! 

Brother Clifton was close to my thoughts when he said they were on the
"edge" of the Apostolic movement.  I would prefer to use the term
"fringe".  Actually, Brother Matthew, I'm  more of a radical than you
think!  I believe that "the acts of the sinful nature are ...sexual
immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred,
discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions,
factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like, "and that"  
those who live like this will not inherit the Kingdom of God"  (Gal
5:19-21).  In God's eyes hatred, discord, factions, and dissensions are
just as appalling as sexual immorality.  A lot of Apostolics might be
surprised to discover this on judgment day!


 
> To accuse the AWCF of isolationism because they're not interested in
> the
> greater oecumenical vision is ridiculous.  The organisation is
> committed to
> Apostolic unity, and there is an existing context upon which Bishop
> Smith
> has rested his argument.

As I noted in my response to Brother Clifton, Brother Smith's isolation
from greater Christendom is woefully apparent in his epistle by the
stereotypical misrepresentations of Catholic beliefs.  As I proceed with
my posts I hope to make this apparent.  Also, I would enjoy learning
more of the "existing context" of the Bishop's epistle.  Please share
your knowledge with us.

> 
> I think here we must distinguish between ecumenity and dialogue.  The
> former term suggests unity, solidarity; the latter implies discourse,
> mutual
> discussion.  We can discuss our various beliefs, present to one
> another our
> positions and allow love to prevail in matters.  Seeking common ground
> with
> a view toward reconciliation with the Church of Rome or any of her
> spawn is
> unapostolic and could only weaken our Apostolic resolve to be
> dedicated to
> the truths of God's word.

You make some good points here Brother Matthew!  However, ecumenical
unity and solidarity does not necessarily imply the loss of identity or
the compromise of ones beliefs. I do not see a danger in pointing out
the  many similarities Apostolics share with Catholics. I hope to
present these similarities as I proceed with my posts. Also,  I do not
advocate any reconciliation with Rome.  I do advocate an informed
Apostolic Pentecostal witness to the over 1 billion Roman Catholics.

God Bless you Brother Matthew!

Steve