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BROTHER STEVE:
You are right Brother Matthew.  I do believe that other Christians
experience the reality of God's Salvation. Similarities do not imply
identity.  I don't believe that the Apostolic experience of salvation 
is
identical with that of other Christians.  In fact, in many cases, it 
is
radically different.  At the same time similarities between 
Apostolics
and other Christians can be a valuable tool for witnessing to the
truthfulness of the Apostolic faith.

ME:
Great to see you back with the ole' message <s>.  I'm glad that you 
are back on "speaking terms" with the list :)  I do realize that *I* 
lose a lot of meaning with the various offshoots of your sentences...
and at times, it seems that you are Bill Clinton at his grand jury 
testimony...constantly avoiding questions or accusations with flowery 
legal terms.  However, I feel that if I am to effectively discuss 
theology with theologians, I must understand this terminology--but 
oftentimes I find myself debating with nice friendly baptist church-
ladies using such wording...and it seems as if I am looking down on 
them :-(  SO, to clarify what you have just said, you could say..."I 
believe that we have the TRUE salvation experience...but the ones 
that other religions have will save them just as well."  If this were 
true, Jesus wouldn't go through all the trouble of explaining what he 
wanted for salvation...if he could accept any feeble attempt at 
salvation, he would not have had to die, because the law would have 
been sufficient.  I feel that you are suggesting that which was 
illuded to in Hebrews 6:6--"They crucify to themselves the Son of God 
afresh, and put him to an open shame."

BROTHER:
I believe that other Christians experience the reality of God's
salvation.  I have responded to this question in my response to 
Brother
Clifton and to avoid being repetitive I would appreciate it if you 
would
read that response. (Gotta save that hard disk space!)

ME:
Sorry, but again, I see this Clinton (I hope I am not insulting you 
by using this analogy) speech...."I refer back to my original 
statement" which, if had been made clear, would not be questioned.  
Again, you simply mean that other Christians are just as saved as we--
so I ask, what's the point of being "TRULY" saved if any experience 
will do it?  Why did Jesus have to go in order to baptize us with the 
Holy Ghost if we didn't really need it?  And, why be crucified if our 
"real experiences" through the law would do it?

BROTHER STEVE:
You make some good points here Brother Matthew!  However, ecumenical
unity and solidarity does not necessarily imply the loss of identity 
or
the compromise of ones beliefs. 

ME:
Not sure what you mean here....eccumunical unity implies that we 
unite with Catholics, Baptists, Assemblies of God, etc.  In so doing, 
we COMPLETELY lost our identity with Christ and salvation (Salvation 
being the ONE, NARROW path that Christ, not man, teaches) by 
advocating a false God (Trinity) and a false baptism.  However, if 
you mean unity among apostolics, I agree completely.  But, I don't 
think that joining an organization (AWFC) will do that.  And, I don't 
think that Christ intended such "downsizing" of the church into one 
organization--In fact, I have my doubts even about my "bless-ed" UPC 
:)  As the Apostolic church continues (or at least a faction of the 
UPC and the AWFC) to move away from the local assembly which has 
complete autonomy and is the body of Christ, to a large "fellowship" 
of authoritative organizations, a red light goes off in my head.  But,
 that is another thread. :)

BROTHER STEVE:
I do not see a danger in pointing out the  many similarities 
Apostolics share with Catholics. I hope to present these similarities 
as I proceed with my posts. Also,  I do not advocate any 
reconciliation with Rome.  I do advocate an informed Apostolic 
Pentecostal witness to the over 1 billion Roman Catholics.

ME:
Absolutely!  I encourgage Apostolic to move on any common ground that 
they can with Catholics.  But, let's not leave out the similarities 
with Mormons that we have, Jews, Baptists, Assemblies of God, etc.  
But, the fact still remains that we have more in common with 
catholics and mormons than we do with, say, Lutherans!

1.  Belief in the Church that Jesus established and the need to be 
associated with that church

2.  Baptism is part of salvation and not just a "symbol".

3.  Holy Spirit baptism essential (even though we, catholics, and 
mormons all have different ideas about how that happens and when)

I could go on, but I will allow brother Steve to elaborate at will.  
BUT, does this mean that we must JOIN them on this common ground?  
NO!!!  Should we become UNIFIED on this common ground?  NO!!!  
Remember that Satan knows more about God that most trinitarians do--
He believes in one God too...but why unite with him because of it?  
And why downplay the importance of a barrier between the church of 
Jesus Christ and that of satan?  God bless brother Steve--and I've 
really enjoyed the last posts!

____
Joshua Allen
LSVH37A@Prodigy.com