The Apostolic Dialogue with Catholics 6

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

[Bro. Starcher]:
 The New Testament presents the one reality of
>Jesus Christ in a multitude of different ways.  This is a source of
>Christian diversity.
>
[Matthew]:
So, Bro. Starcher, what you are saying is that there was no apostles'
doctrine?  You seem to be arguing that the existance of multiple documents
that have come to comprise the canon is the foundation of doctrinal
diversity.  I would distinguish, however, between a diversity of perspective
and doctrinal diversity.

It is clear from the Scriptures that the Apostles were unified on the
identity of Jesus Christ as God manifest the flesh, the reality of His
death, burial and resurrection and their inclusion in the Apostolic Church
through His Spirit.  Is this common basis and the repeated Apostolic
warnings against false teachers and doctrines not enough to assure us of the
fact that they maintained a certain singularity?

[Starcher]:
>>From my Apostolic Pentecostal perspective it is very clear that Acts
>2:38 presents the way to salvation.  Evangelicals, however, focus on
>John 3:16 and Romans 3:23.  Catholics look to the sacramental passages
>of scripture.  All of these Christians place their faith in Jesus Christ
>but utilize differing portions of Scripture as the locus for their
>faith.  These loci correspond to their experiences of Christ in their
>distinctive Christian  communities.  Apostolics experience God in the
>baptism in the Holy Spirit, Evangelicals in the proclamation of the
>word, and Catholics in the sacraments. There is in unity of faith placed
>in Jesus Christ, but a diversity in the experience of Jesus Christ and
>in the expression of  that  experience using Holy Scripture.

[Matthew]:
These are some very broad assumptions!  Do you believe in
transubstantiation?  Is Christ bodily present in the sacrament?  You are
suggesting that our worship of Christ is unified allowing for a diversity of
perspective.

While I don't deny that there are those within every communion that exercise
a true love for Jesus, we deny the truth if we say that Christian worship is
a matter of preference.  I suppose I don't understand how we maintain an
evangelistic thrust if we admit a soteriological universalism for those
outside of the parameters of the Biblical Apostolic Church.

[Starcher]:
  This
>diversity of experience and expression is consistent with the faith of
>Christians in the New Testament.
>
This simply is not true.  The Apostles do not allow for such sweeping
differences.  Diversities ended in schisms, and the post-Apostolic Church
was riddled by divisions over doctrinal matters.  Christians in the New
Testament carefully protected their faith and guarded against the unhealthy
interpolations of degenerative doctrines and positions.


[Starcher]:
>>From my Apostolic perspective, the personal lifestyles of some of these
>"mainliners" is wanting.  Well, let me be more forceful.  How about
>appalling, unbiblical, inconsistent with the life of Christ.  Still,
>other mainliners pricked my conscience and had me thinking about my
>"worldly" lifestyle.

[Matthew]:
Actually, Plato has convicted me over my worldliness before, but I don't
esteem him a Christian or inspired.

 Honestly, what is the point of these posts?  You're going round Robin
Hood's barn to tell us that Apostolics have lived too long in isolation,
must be willing to accept the Christian experience of others and can
communicate their faith more effectively by doing so.

I agree with you that our faith will not be understood if we turn our noses
up and pretend that other expressions don't exist.  I disagree with you that
this process or our effective witness requires us to affirm their salvation
experience.

Blessings.

Bro. Matthew Shaw